Indyref8

[grovel]

ItsAllGoingToBeFine, but who will be Prime Minister? Pretty unsatisfactory changing halfway through. My suggestion was that maybe Cameron, Clegg, Miliband et al agree on a team and step back themselves. It would make the end result a joint enterprise and could prevent years of feuding in rUK.

Rose- have you not been affected by austerity policies at all? How much have recent WM policies cost you?

Stop cutting and pasting please!

Weatherall/IAGTBF You do yourselves a deservice and totally undermine your (rationale) arguments by suggestions of Westminster dissolving the Scottish Parliament, etc. Just because something can be done in theory ...

Further devolution for Scotland has just been confirmed to a worldwide audience during PMQs.

The best bit about weatherall's post (apart from the fact that all responses are ignored) is the final bit.

"Scotland's First Minster Alex Salmond has asserted"

Are you really going to vote based on assertions?

The toing and froing of economic arguments is necessary and there is a compelling reason to stay in the Union economically, as there is no doubt that there will be economic fall out, in the short to medium term, of going it alone.

My main issue is the lack of democracy. But that could have been resolved with DevoMax

It has been agreed by all parties that we could do it ourselves. Indeed, what would it be about us that makes us the only small country in the world that is too stupid, too poor, too (whatever - choose) to run our own country? But separation would not be necessary in my opinion had Cameron actually listened to the will of the people or taken any bloody interest whatsoever. Instead we have been forced to choose Yes or No to Independence and now they are not liking the possible outcome of that dare.

There is no way that anything like DevoMax will be honoured now. The will give us a few clips round the ear and then go back to pretending we don't exist

No one is saying poverty will be immediately eradicated but independence is a step in the right direction for Scotland to help their own people who are worst hit by WM policies which mostly are out of touch.

One thing I would say Itsallgoing is that the external statements are generally pretty watered down compared to the internal stuff IYSWIM. Those of us saying we've been told jobs are moving aren't making it up -we just can't provide source evidence for obvious reasons.

Weatherall an independent Scotland could be more equal. Those who are wealthier -not rich -will be those most able to leave if the going gets tough. That's just reality -folk with money are more able to be mobile. They're the ones who contribute the most in absolute terms to tax /ni. There will also probably be more people out of work who couldn't move. So more people on benefits, with less money to go around. That makes everyone poorer. We might be more equal -but is that an improvement if it'd only because life has got worse for the poor but there are just more of them?

Yes I know you don't agree with me about the economy. Let's not rehash that. But because I believe the economic scenario is gloomy I don't believe the wonderful fair equal society will emerge the way you hope.

That should be disservice!

Standard Life will pull out of Scotland if it's a Yes vote. Business follows money. They need to look after their shareholders. This is reality hitting.

www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/banksandfinance/11086667/Pensions-giant-Standard-Life-threatens-transfer-to-England-if-Scotland-votes-for-independence.html

I've heard the phrase 'family of nations' over 20 times on tv this morning from 5 different no politicians. Ugh, so cynical.

Weatherall Standard Life did not say that prior to the devolution referendum. They very much said they would need to assess. This time, they have been very clear they have drawn up contingency plans. It makes sense - they cannot afford to lose investors due to all the uncertainty that would be caused over the next few years (currency, fiscal policy, financial regulator, financial stability). Investors don't care about jobs in Scotland. Unless Standard Life provides this comfort now, they will face a run on their funds.

It will be very hard to provide an "equal" Scotland without the money for education and training and health and the welfare state.

Further devolution for Scotland has just been confirmed to a worldwide audience during PMQs.

I thought PMQs had been cancelled because DC was up here hobnobbing with Standard Life talking to ordinary voters.?

Rose so we shouldn't believe AS assertions, but we should believe DC, darling, millibands assertions?

I am not actually sure why I am replying, weatherall, since you refused to acknowledge your interest rate error.

I have had no pay rise for ages until 1% this year (public sector) and lots of things have become more expensive. I believe things are turning around. I did get a pay rise this year. Fuel is currently a bit cheaper and so is food. The strength of the pound (until this week) had made foreign holidays a possibility again. I think the economy is improving and it is starting to trickle down to me.

Interest rates might go up slowly, but then so are property prices which means no negative equity.

The status quo is improving. The Yes alternative is to be catapulted into economic disaster.

Weatherall - it's probably because you seem to see independence as a panacea for all ills. There are rich and poor people in pretty much every country in the world (with maybe the possible exception of Brunei ). Even Scandinavia has it's fair share of poor people. Scottish independence will not wipe out the poor. Well - not in the way you're hoping anyway.

Exactly.

Are there no wealthy people in Scotland and will they all give up their wealth if Scotland becomes independent?... Thought not.

Standard Life will pull out of Scotland if it's a Yes vote. Business follows money. They need to look after their shareholders. This is reality hitting.

Again, this is NOT what they have said.

www.standardlife.com/utility/customer_statement-2.html

"In view of the uncertainty around Scotland's constitutional future, we have put in place precautionary measures which would help enable us to provide customers with continuity. This includes planning for new regulated companies in England to which we could transfer parts of our business if there was a need to do so." (My emphasis)

All big companies have contingency planning, its a basic part of management its a shame WM hasn't bothered

I simply pointed out the humour of posting something as "proof" that contained the word "assertion".

I am suspious of many politicians and their promises. However, 3 major political parties have made a commitment to something and I believe that they will keep each other right. Who will keep Salmond right? No one, because he listens to no one.

So why didn't WM have contingency plans two years ago, or even longer in case Scotland votes Yes for independence then? Can I get an answer for that? No one has bothered to answer this one, and I've already asked this several pages ago now.

So if Scotland gets independence you are going to irradicste poverty WOW that is a big leap and a half!

*irradicate

However, 3 major political parties have made a commitment to something and I believe that they will keep each other right.

They have had years to devolve further powers if they really believednin it. As they obviously don't believe on it why would they piss off the bulk of their voters to appease a tiny minority who can't impact their governance.

PMQs just finished. Hague vs Harman.

Irnbru, I don't think any of us can answer that because contrary to popular rumour, we're not part of the political establishment . My best guess goes something like "we'll do the British stiff upper lip thing, can't be seen to be planning for the country breaking up. Polls say it's a solid no anyway. "

Problem is the eejits stated that publicly then didn't back the hell down when the polls started to shift.

Anyone who works for Standard Life can read between the lines.

Standard Life will move to larger market and a known currency.

Can you not see that?

I'm tired of all this, I hid this thread last night so I could get some sleep.

I don't have all the answers. Who does? For every question I tried to answer I felt mocked by many so gave up. You have access to the same answers that I do. I'd like to put it to the very vocal no people here, for every question you demand an in depth answer to from a yes supporter then please show an answer to the same question detailing what will pan out in the future if there's a no vote.

Then we'll be even.

A no vote isn't a vote for the status quo, and shouldn't be thought of as such.

There's uncertainty ahead, yes or no.