Indyref8

[grovel]

ItsAllGoingToBeFine, but who will be Prime Minister? Pretty unsatisfactory changing halfway through. My suggestion was that maybe Cameron, Clegg, Miliband et al agree on a team and step back themselves. It would make the end result a joint enterprise and could prevent years of feuding in rUK.

Rose- I imagine quite a few of us were out campaigning last night.

The response on the street is fantastic!

People are so energised and enthusiastic.

I walk with my yes badge and bag and people smile. So many houses have yes posters up. At stalls so many cars toot support. Loads of people are turning up to last minute leaflet drops. People aren't just saying they are voting yes they are asking what they can do to help. There are yes shops springing up everywhere with teams of volunteers, most of whom have never been political before.

I never want this to end!

The Scottish parliament has been going for 15 years and is still evolving and is still to use all it's powers.

And why not? Is it because Salmond doesn't want to? He actively doesn't want it to succeed?

The reason the white paper is so ambitious is because it is looking far into the future

I'm amazed any one still gives it any credibility. Although as you have effectively described it as a crystal ball that is now at least accurate.

Oh and the timetable of 18 months is beyond ridiculous. Nothing will be determined in such a short period.

Oh, you have been here for a while weatherall. I was not questioning your dedication to these threads. It was the influx of new members that "surprised" me.

I'd say the opposite is the issue Weatherall. My personal belief, which I have explained and backed up with evidence numerous times, is that independence will almost certainly lead to a severe and long lasting recession, and it will take a long time for us to recover. I think our tax revenues will suffer considerably. I think our credit rating will be worse meaning that debt repayments will cost more. We're already running a significant deficit -even if we walked away from our share of UK debt we would still need to borrow to cover our current level of expenses. How do you think a country in a poorer economic state with reduced funds available to cover what we need, will improve the situation for the poorest who generally suffer most when a country experiences hard times.

Better together is a coalition of parties who can each develop their own proposals to improve poverty.I have never argued that staying in the UK will make it better as it depends on the party in power and on how the Scottish government uses the powers it has. What I have argued is that the economic chaos after independence would make life for the poorest worse.

Weatherall the EU opinion fiasco was a disgrace. The EU position was fundamental to his argument and he and Nicola both brazenly lied in Parliament about its existence. How do you justify that?

Weatherall - I quote
Of course ever possibility that independence allows will not be enacted within the first one or two parliaments.

The Scottish parliament has been going for 15 years and is still evolving and is still to use all it's powers.

I expect independent scotland to be the same. At first changes will be those which are essential to the running of a country ie the currency.

Those phrases need challenging

March 2016 - not before, not after. If you are not ready - well, that should really have been thought of.

Correct it doesnt use powers - like tax raising - much easier to blame every problem on the WM elite - even when they have the means, the mechanism but not the will to fix them

All the changes happen at once - over night. There is no gradual - slide. It happens on the day.

it does strike me not just in your posts but in a lot of yes - that there is no concerted vision, no agreed definition of the state you want on even basic items and there is clearly no clue as to what needs to be done by March 2016.

Would you get on a plane to fly across the atlantic if the pilot said - dont worry, we dont need fuel - youre just being negative. The flight path? Nah we will work it out. Or perhaps - engines? We will borrow them from that plane over there.

Statistically you know I have had respect for you on these threads, but I have to disagree when you say that NO voters have been hounded. The only no voters that got as good as they gave were lady c and Chelsy where they have on occasion blatantly attempted to derail constructive discussion into arguments about money class and education.

No one has called you a selfish rich bitch only worried about your pathetic job. I once said that you seemed to be predominately worried about your job and FS in edinburgh ( amongst other things) and when you explained more of your reasoning .

Everyone's getting emotional now, Jesus even John major and Gordon Brown are having a special teary hug, but lose your much admired cool.

There's hoards of people turning up at the no meet ups too, it's not only folk voting yes who are engaged! I hope this level of political engagement continues

I think people are scared and intimidated. My children don't feel comfortable in some company in school (both below voting age). My son has been told to fuck off back to England. The "Yes" badges and posters, when viewed from the other side are intimidating. I feel pressured from all sides to follow the leader, the glorious leader. It is like the going over the top in WW1 or the pressure to join in for the boys in "Lord of the Flies" - it is all around. People conform to what their neighbours are doing because they are scared, caught up in it, or just not prepared to argue.

I think you will find, with the ballot paper in front of them, and their jobs, pensions and mortgages at stake, many people will quietly vote No.

Enjoy your party, weatherall. I think it is a rather unpleasant, nasty and vague campaign. I think the people of Scotland are being persuaded without facts or real information. I think it is very, very sad that Alex and his pals are leading their troops into such disaster without real thought for the future.

Anyone want to bet where Alex Salmond stashes his money? Probably in an US bank or in Japanese shares. He is highly unlikely to have it in the local branch of RBS waiting for the day when it turns into dust and ashes.

Lost part of my post there , I meant to say when you explained more of your reasoning I apologised. I was never rude or aggressive. I never have been. And I've never seen any No poster being rude and aggressive apart from when subjected to extreme provocation by lady c or Chelsy.

Lol at me being a socialist!

We want cuts. How many times do I have to say that.

We are paying too much (literally, Scots pays more tax than rUK) into a pot which puts money into things that not only don't benefit Scotland but actually harms our economy.

The cost of hs2 is billions and has been shown to damage the Scottish economy, especially that of Dundee and Aberdeen. Tell me why Scotland should be paying for hs2?

Cross rail- it is deemed a 'national' project so Scots have to pay up. Please inform me how Crossrail will benefit the Scottish economy?

MPs- Scotland pays £60 million pa on MPs. Do you think we get value for money? How many people can even name their pm let alone have ever met them?

Mine is a sell out Labour crony.

Trident- over £100 billion. Nope I'd rather have the schools and hospitals thanks!

Oversized countries like the UK have fat bureaucracy. Smaller nations are more successful because it is more efficient to run an economy of 5.3 million.

Do you know what, if it wasn't for the likes of Statistically and LadyCordelia and OddCommentator and the other reasonable, well-informed, clever and brilliant posters on here, I would be in tears most nights.

It is bloody terrifying that we might wake up on 19th to economic chaos on a scale not seen ever before. We go to bed in one of the wealthiest, most stable places on earth and we wake up to a run on the banks, plunging pound, stock market in crisis and mass exodus of anyone with any money.

Any England based English teachers on here got a job for a knackered refugee (Yorkshire born)?

Weatherall - you are refusing to answer the most basic of questions - yet you persist in complicitly campaigning to get more people to join your ship of fools. For this has to be called. It is a ship of fools. People must look at Scotland and think - and this percentage of people are buying it? Really? Gosh - they will clearly buy any old shit. Every single one of the tenets laid out by the yes campaign has shown to be built on sand, lies, deci

Yes campaigners - want to buy some bottled free scottish air? only 19.99 send a cheque or postal order to my home address. Cos clearly you will believe absolutely anything you are told.

Deeedeee. Your comment was after an entire day of similar comments. When I posted the message a few threads back in response to bring accused of not understanding poverty and explained my background I was sitting in my house crying my eyes out, I was so angry. It actually hurt that people would categorise me that way for holding a different view. Just cos I don't shout and swear at people doesn't mean I don't have emotions. I've just learnt the hard way that people will use them against me so I tend to keep cool and react privately -that goes for real life and online.

I agree - that is one good thing that has come out of this referendum campaign, however stressful and exhausting it is. I really hope that this level of engagement continues, whatever the result. It's been great to see everyone on these threads and elsewhere asking questions, clarifying, understanding macro-economics a bit better.

Assertions, weatherall.

What's that sound?

The sound of Phaedra refusing to answer my question on the McCrone Report!

Again, in case you missed it: do you have a comment on the hiding of the McCrone report?

Xposted with your second message

I think you will find, with the ballot paper in front of them, and their jobs, pensions and mortgages at stake, many people will quietly vote No.

I know of people that have said the same. They are actually feel intimidated to say they want to vote no, so say they are voting yes but will actually vote no iyswim.

Weatherall - your grasp of figures is staggering - truly. There is no point asking you to demonstate your reasoning. A smaller state of 5.m is more efficient to run - says who? You? the copy of socialist worker you copy and paste from - or the yes office from which you paste?

The McCrone Report was effing 1974!!!

Stat- well yes Labour does have a lot of employees in Scotland.

Jesus wept, this is why we all get so angry - because there is this section of Scottish society that are still back in 1745, 1845 or 1974 - take your pick.

Wetherall - has the world changed since 1974? has it? because look around you. it has.

And I've had similar experience on this thread of being constantly belittled and ignored and laughed at, accused of not working, not paying tax, being a nazi , called all kind of names.