IndyRef 7

[ItsAllGoingToBeFine]

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DC and the lib-dems and the labour party are promising more control for Scotland.

Is it only the SNP who don't want more control?

Britain is not in recession.

It may not be growing hugely fast and there may distortions - but we are not in recession. GDP and Employment are all well above pre crisis levels and the UK has the strongest growing economy in the G7

That is Canada, France, Germany, Italy, UK, Japan, & the US

Who is they. The agenda and wording was all agreed on both sides. You are projecting your dislike of westminster.

"Encouraged by opinion polls suggesting a demand for DevoMax , the SNP lobbied hard for a second question offering it as a
constitutional option to be included on the ballot paper."

"It [Devo max] was also unpopular with the pro-Union parties, who argued that the referendum would become unnecessarily complex and were not in the business of offering what they viewed as a “consolation prize” to Mr Salmond."

"In the end, the Edinburgh Agreement stipulated that there would be a single straight-forward question – “Should Scotland be an independent country?”

Nailing the referendum down to simple choice of remaining in the UK or leaving it, was seen as a tactical triumph by the UK Government "

www.scotsman.com/scottish-independence/key-topic/devo-max/

although you could argue that the precise wording of the question "Should Scotland be an independent country?" was psychologically good for the yes campaign. For the reasons I've suggested before on this thread.

Some people feel that the attractions of independence are outweighed by the possibility of short to medium term financial instability

But what you don't seem to get is I for one don't see any "attractions of independence" And nothing you nor anyone else has said have shown me any.

I'm happy with the status quo.

Here's a link to the Reuters report.

The report quotes an unnamed "official" saying there would be no automatic entry to NATO (which is controversial any way). There is nothing new on the EU, just trotting out the Barosso line again.

Maybe there will be a majority yes vote, but during the interim between the ref and actually becoming independent as the negotiations with rUK and EU prove themselves to be more difficult than AS hoped there will be a move to stay in the UK despite the result of the referendum.

Just suggesting a possible scenario that hasn't been considered, to my knowledge.

But what you don't seem to get is I for one don't see any "attractions of independence" And nothing you nor anyone else has said have shown me any.

And that's fine - no-one on thisnthread who has declared for yes or no is going to change their minds. We are all very happy and confident in our decisions. The people we are trying to convince are the undecideds/lurkers. Most of on this thread will never reach agreement.

Yeah, I get that Phaedra.

The trouble is that there is no status quo. A no vote could mean a Tory government (which you may well be happy with), a UKIP forcing policy ever rightward (you might like that too, I don't know), an in/out referendum on the EU leading to short-term financial stability, and an EU exit. God knows Theresa May already wants to opt the UK out of the ECHR.

You can vote for whichever option presents, in your view, the least risk. But the 'status quo' isn't - and will never be - on any ballot paper.

I don't think the issues is if we are or are not in NATO or the EU, as such - it's that Salmond and co have told outright whoppers about the certainty of those things happening. He spent a wedge of cash on legal advice to try and prevent him having to release the "legal advice" he claimed he'd had on the EU. Because it didn't exist. That's the issue - the man who is leading a campaign full of promises has already been shown to be untruthful. What other lies are we being told? What other promises are being made which cannot be fulfilled?

I'm sure Phaedra is aware that nothing stays the same for ever. Current system of political representation is my understanding of that comment.

Sorry if that isn't what you meant Phaedra

The negotiations will be fascinating. How do rUK play them when there's an election next year? Who gets to sit opposite Salmond?

I hope really that the WM parties will appoint a cross-party team so that rUK doesn't get involved in internecine politics about who gave what to Scotland.

Criseyde to me your argument of "no status quo" is another bit of Yes camp spin I keep hearing.

A No vote can't be compared to the jump into the unknown that would be independence.
I sense you are a person who likes an "ism"!

I hope really that the WM parties will appoint a cross-party team so that rUK doesn't get involved in internecine politics about who gave what to Scotland.

I'd imagine they would, just as Scotland will.

It must be a great time to be a political commentator at the moment.

Doesn't the roadmap say that Salmond will be leading the team?

A No vote can't be compared to the jump into the unknown that would be independence.

Of course it can!

What's going to happen with Barnett?
Who'll be in power?
Where are the rest of the cuts going to fall?
Are we going to be in the EU?
Is there going to be another crash?
Is UK going to spend shit loads on another War?

Massive uncertainties which ever way people choose to vote. Do you trust WM or SG to manage those uncertainties better?

Yes, it must be an ACE time to be a political commentator right now, this is the stuff they dream of.

Doesn't the roadmap say that Salmond will be leading the team?

I think so, and I assume the Prime Minister will be leading the rUK team. Doesn't stop it being cross party.

Re: Unintended Consequences

Good points Raintown. I can't believe so many otherwise-intelligent people are being borne away on a wave of utopian euphoria. It's crazy to think the rUK will do us any favours post a 'Yes' vote and who could blame them? Even if the politicians wanted to cut a deal on currency etc, the weight of public opinion would be against it. As J K Rowling said, this would be a very bitter divorce and our unique social & cultural union will be gone forever.

All of these uncertainties apply equally to an independent Scotland - except the Barnett formula ItsAll

All of these uncertainties apply equally to an independent Scotland

That was my point! There are myriad uncertainties whichever way you vote.