To be annoyed , even outraged that my 9 year old came home from school with this book?

[babyiwantabump]

I really don't know if I am bu as I know they are educating children about things younger these days but DD ,aged 9 ,on her second day in year 5 ,has today come home having chosen a book from the reading selection in the classroom .

The book she has chosen is AIDS orphan.

The book describes HIV and AIDS which is fair enough but it also discusses rape , prostitution , injecting drugs such as cocaine and heroin etc .

I'm really annoyed (fuming!!)with the school .
The leader of homework club is the one who told me that DD had the book as she had asked the teacher what a condom was as it also discusses the use of condoms ( especially during anal sex !!) she was concerned about the book and she didn't feel it appropriate for a 9 year old either.

I just need to know if I am BU before I go in on Monday to discuss with DD's teacher and headmaster about the book .

I know children need to learn but I haven't even had the proper sex talk(she has been told the basics ) with DD yet and she is having further issues like this thrust at her first! She's a child!!

Thanks if you've read this far.

Here's the review for this book in the TES.

mama fill your boots and your bookshelves with all the books you want in your own home.

Sorry some of us aren't as with it and liberal as you are clearly I missed that page in My parenting manual.

Yes these things exist but they don't exist in my child's life and I would like to keep it that way as long as is possible

Some posters have suffered at the hands of adults as children, but I do feel this is clouding their judgement. Anotherchapter Nursery Sex Education really! :( You like Gordy are in the minority with your views. And Gordy I am not peeved (well perhaps a little miffed that I cannot express myself as eloquently as you do.) But I would be a hell of a lot pissed off if the opinions of the minority (as they sometimes do because they are fashionable) became the norm in schools. Nursery Sex Education being the last straw...

I love unicorns.

Going of that book review pixie I absolutely find it relevant.

Going by that review it's a KS3 book and no place in a primary school...

equally though Candy your belief in the Victorian construct of 'childhood' as a magical time of innocence is equally clouding your judgement - childhood for many many children is not as you imagine it - I'd go as far as to say for the majority it's a bit hit and miss - not some kind of unicorn filled fluffy bunny land - no matter how much you want it to be

You know there is a middle ground between Famous five kind of childhood and that of a war torn nation right?

I was not abused as a child and I hold the "minority view". But I was sexually assualted by an older child at school, I did not report it to anyone as I knew nothing would be done. I was 11 and he was 16. I am nearly 44 now. I don't think my judgement is clouded. It is reasoned and reasonable. Hope that hasn't spoilt your day.

I agree with Anotherchapter too, of course you should set age appropriate boundaries around what are defined as private and intimate areas of your life/body.

But how young do you go with that?

I wouldn't tell my nearly 5 YO (the same age as gordy was when she was assaulted, (and the thought that it happened to you at 4 gordy is hard to put into words)) about what some men would like to do to her, and I wouldn't because I see that as part of my job to protect her from those people.

She doesn't need that responsibility on her shoulders.

I'm not saying that parents always know when their children are being abused, or that I can read the signs that it's happening to my children more than anyone else, or even that it actually will shield them from it, but rather that I wouldn't want even a hint of those things to be inside my DDs head.

I won't let my DD to even think one thought about those men unless that choice was taken away from me, which would be over my dead body.

Was just about to write that Kate.
I do think nursery children need to be taught private parts are private, nobody is allowed to see them if they don't want them to, nobody is allowed to touch them, never be scared to tell mummy or daddy, you will never be in trouble etc.
There's just such a grey area between wanting to protect your children and their innocence, and them being aware so that they know not to suffer in silence if the unthinkable were to happen.
It's chilling to have to think about isn't it?

baby yanbu. It is not the school's place to give your child access to this kind of material, which needs careful context and explanation to avoid scaring and confusing children. Complain to the teacher first, and if you are not satisfied, go to the head. Appalling that your poor dd has had this dropped on her without support or guidance. Sounds to me as though they have this stuff on the shelf to impress OFSTED. Condoms and anal sex are not suitable for a nine year old to be learning about alone. Hope she is okay.

IndeliKate, I feel as if that really should be something that parents discuss with their children, DH and I had that talk with DS1 when he was much younger.

However I am conflicted because there are many parents who don't so maybe it is a good idea for nursery schools to cover it.

This thread has certainly got me thinking (regardless of my silly unicorn comment which was awfully timed).

I was never sexually abused or assaulted as a child so my views are not clouded by that.

To me there is a fundamental difference in my thinking about sex and some other posters. Menstruations, Sex, Pregnancy, Birth, are all as natural as breathing or sleeping.

I will never understand why all other bodily functions are discussed openly and others are kept like secrets we should be ashamed of. Being aware of something doesn't encourage it and I think its beneficial to be just as open about sex.

Vvrocket I was once at a conference with a world expert on sexual abuse - he spoke about his daughters first day in school and how statistically he knew 3 out of the 30 kids in her class were being abused - and trying to work out who they were ... because that was what his job taught him :(

I would hate my DC's to have a "Victorian" construct of a childhood so now you are kind of labelling and judging me. All I tried to point out (but not very articulately), is that most whilst most posters agree with the op you and MamaPain and Another Chapter are in the minority. And we are merely debating it healthily on a Mumsnet Forum and trying to keeo it a fair fight. But we (the majority) of dp's are then villified for being "prudish"for our views. Of course you are entitled to your own views and how you rear your own DC's is no concern of mine. But (big but,) just say the OP's teacher shares your (minority) opinions and felt the 9 year olds should be "better informed", this is where it becomes fraught. Parents should be canvassed about appropriate reading materials and sex education, it is not as if educationalists don't make mistakes.

sorry Candy if my views 'cloud my judgement' it's okay but to suggest yours do is 'labelling and judging' ? erm okay then

I will bow out of the discussion with you because you seem to want to argue for little reason x

I agree with gordy, there wouldn't be anything in that book that my ds at 9 didn't already know or I wouldn't be happy to talk to him about if he asked.

oh and please show me where I have called anyone 'prudish' or objected to being in a minority -

I know I am in the minority - why does that bother you so much ?

calm down - I am not about to force your kids to read about real life

Candy, I also feel the same as anotherchapter and gordy. It is so easy to whoop up emotive views on the internet. Yes, this book could cause controversy but is covering distressing subject matter that is no different to many many subjects that are distressing and taught in primary school. Anne Frank was read by my children in primary school. They are discussing the first world war next term. Just some examples of children readily learning about the horror of war.

Children all over the world are living with the consequences of HIV. It is extremely relevant and a subject that should be discussed openly. I cannot see a problem with it.

I think there are too many unfamiliar scenarios and issues there for a 9 yo to absorb. When topics are really remote from the everyday life of a 9 yo reading material whether fiction or non fiction really isn't going to be appropriate. If it's fictional treatment, the average 9 yo will not be able to cope with the emotional element of an account of rape or drug abuse or prostitution or gay or straight sex, with or without condoms, and if non-fiction, the material is as difficult to grasp and cope with emotionally as the topic of Mutual Assured Destruction might have been to a child of the 1970s.
(I understand that there are children to whom topics like this are familiar, but they are a minority, and this book does not address their needs either.)

One of the difficulties of having DCs who were early and voracious readers was finding reading material for them that offered challenging vocabulary and complexity of plot, but was still emotionally appropriate for their ages in terms of topics and circumstances. I would have skipped this book. At 9 it would have been too much of a Pandora's Box, with too much context to fill in when questions were asked, and too much opportunity for speculation and getting the wrong end of the stick if questions were not asked, or if answers were not understood.

For those who say their 4 yo children know where a penis goes during heterosexual sex - wait til the same children are about 9 and ask them again; based on my own experience of thinking I had most of the basics covered at age 4 when they were really curious and asked a lot of questions (in the context of how babies are made and then born) my guess is they will have completely forgotten everything you have told them by age 9 unless you keep on reminding them and bringing up the topic in conversation, which imo isn't really the way to go - better to deal with this topic if and when it comes up and then beginning around 8/9 introduce it again perhaps with help from a book like The Care and Keeping of You.

I am not prudish neither is the OP she just wants the right thing for her DC.I too am going now because this thread will just become some kind of "judgy" "pointy stick"fest and not what the OP wanted I am sure, I wish her good luck and hope it was just an oversight.

Gordy - I literally want to cry...
I think the scariest part is it's almost always someone who is known to the child.
I think that's why it's SO SO important for them to know what is acceptable and what isn't, and that they should NEVER be afraid to tell mummy or daddy or whoever they can trust, if something has made them uncomfortable no matter who it is...
My heart absolutely breaks for you for what you've been through, and actually quite a high number of my friends as well....
it just reiterates it happens a lot more than people think. ...

That's why the NSPCC PANTS campaign is so good, is child friendly child appropriate, covers the bases, teaches children to be aware, teaches parents what to look out for and all without the graphic nature that many of you are advocating