To not be sure if a 17 year old boy can be in the right headspace to train as a midwife?

[Boysclothes]

I know a few male midwives, all older guys who are nurse converted and are all great. No problem with it at all.

However a friends son wants to be in a caring profession and she has asked me to have a chat with him about becoming a midwife, direct entry so training from next September. She knows a bit about it and thinks the autonomy/quicker progression/pay etc makes it more desirable than being a nurse.

So, I'm just musing here as I know the admissions tutors will make the decision they see fit, but I'm not sure if a just turned 18 year old lad could cope with or make sense of midwifery. It's just so very female isn't it? And if he hasn't got much experience of women, it just seems a bit... I dunno.... Inappropriate, possibly?

I'm going to tell him about the realities of the job but what are your thoughts?

So sorry for your loss slithytove.

I also find the idea that we have to be guinea pigs with our bodies awful. I'm currently pregnant and had an early scan after previous MC. I was offered an additional scan for training purposes, the screen image of my scan would be transported to a lecture theatre and the doctor would speak to them via link. I was happy to agree to this, signed a consent form and it was all done very respectfully and professionally.

A few weeks later I attended routine MW appointment and there was an older female student in attendance. I was introduced to her but no one asked if I was okay with her being there, and when it was time to listen to the heart beat she automatically went first, was very rough, pressing very hard until I winced and couldn't find it. I ended up in tears and the MW took over. I think because of this I would be reluctant to allow any students to give me physical care now.

Of course students need to learn but there are ways of handling it that still allow patients choice and respect their wishes.

I'm so sorry for what you have been through, slithy.

Yes, rainbow, active combat too. I mean, we're all working longer now, so that three years doesn't seem much of a delay in the scheme of things, but for most people there is a great leap in maturity.

Anna,

I am not disputing that a male is just as capable of doing the job as a female but it is quite natural for a female to prefer to be examined, in a highly intimate manner, by another female

I'm interested in why that should be, though I do understand.

If it's underpinned by ideas around sexuality, as often seems the case, then surely a woman clinician isn't enough - it would need to be a heterosexual woman, right?

Personally, I'd hope that sexuality is a non-issue for clinicians and consequently their gender irrelevant.

How do we feel about gay male midwives then? Or lesbian midwives?
It all starts to get complicated....

I am with BellyButton re: having never seen a student delivering alone - not in 14yrs as a midwife.

You just wouldn't take the risk - most of the students wouldn't nevermind the unit

I do not think that having a baby made me a better midwife either. In fact there is a real risk of projecting your own experiences around birth and feeding onto the women you are caring for.... I delivered a big baby vaginally and exclusively breast fed - doesn't mean that everyone can or want to...

Don't get me wrong I acknowledge that some of your experiences sound horrible and I am really sorry they happened.

I still would defend your right to the hilt for autonomy and choice over your treatment and who delivers it in an individual basis. But as many don't mind being treated by a young male, I don't think young males should not be allowed to be a midwife

It doesn't matter to me whether a man is gay or a woman is a lesbian. It is about the differences in how women and men are brought up.

Could you explain more, femin, about upbringing?

Men are taught to objectify women and to have a sense of entitlement over women.

All men? You're writing off a whole gender?!

I requested female staff only when I was giving birth. I wouldn't have wanted a male either way. But my midwife and my pediatrician are both young (or maybe my age), and they were fantastic. It doesn't matter the age.

I did have some student nurses come over to poke and prod baby DD so they could learn about taking vitals. I was ok with that since they weren't hurting her, and she was a very laid back baby.

Yes all men are taught that. Some reject it or try and unlearn it. When amongst men I don't know, I haven't a clue what their views are about women.

Yes, he should go for it. But he should also understand that unlike other professions midwifery isn't an impersonal thing. It's different dependent on each person. Some might want him there, some might not. He needs to be able to take that like water off a ducks back.

If he's good, and the patient is ok with a male in the room, at the end of the birth his gender will be the last thing on their minds.

That's an amazingly sweeping assertion, femin. No doubt you have your reasons but it doesn't chime with my experience or the behaviour of the men in my family.

I have bought up 'men' one of whom is training to do medicine. I can assure you niether he, nor his brother have been taught to objectify women and to have a sense of entitlement over women.

I don't understand people that hate men. I know there are scummy men about but there are plenty of good men too, umm, just the same as women really.

Men are not bought up to objectify women. Some do, some don't but I think it's unfair to make such a derogatory sweeping statement about an entire gender.

I've bought 2 boys up. Neither of them have been taught to objectify women.

Some men objectify women, it is bloody daft to make such a generalisation about a whole gender.

Mark you, according to some on this thread my 2 shouldn't be thinking about, or in the careers they have chosen. DS2 wants to be a nurse, as I've said. DS1(19) is in the Army, so what do I know!

brought

Dia that is one of my pet hates! my iPad unfortunately doesn't know the difference!

I'm with you batsperson - I have got a baby boy and it saddens me he's already doomed to be some kind of objectifying, deviant predator.

It's not to do with sexuality. Not at all.

There are many many situations where men prefer to be with men and women prefer to be with women. And there are many many situations where that is accommodated.

If I was in a communal fitting or changing room, say, like they used to have, I would feel relatively comfortable getting changed with other women. It would not be standard in our society at all for a man to be in there. Whether he was gay or straight would be irrelevant.

I find it surprising that so many people are sort of saying they don't understand these types of things. They feel like second nature to me.

I have no idea what my midwife (wives?) looked like when I had my son. I would not have noticed if they'd been male. Heck, i probably wouldn't have noticed if the room was filled with male midwives.

If he is passionate about wanting to help people, and he want to be a midwife, then he should go for it. he may find that its not for him, but at least he would have given it a shot.

I can't see how gender segregation isn't, at it's core, a response to human sexuality (to clarify, I mean desire for sex, rather than orientation).

If it's not that, why wouldn't you feel comfortable in a changing room with men?

I also have a baby boy.

I can't kid myself that, regardless of the messages he gets at home, he won't be becoming a man in a cultural context in which women are sexually objectified, amongst other things.

Somethingonce - So do you have a problem if you shared a changing room with a woman you knew was a les