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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To not be sure if a 17 year old boy can be in the right headspace to train as a midwife?

618 replies

Boysclothes · 05/09/2014 11:26

I know a few male midwives, all older guys who are nurse converted and are all great. No problem with it at all.

However a friends son wants to be in a caring profession and she has asked me to have a chat with him about becoming a midwife, direct entry so training from next September. She knows a bit about it and thinks the autonomy/quicker progression/pay etc makes it more desirable than being a nurse.

So, I'm just musing here as I know the admissions tutors will make the decision they see fit, but I'm not sure if a just turned 18 year old lad could cope with or make sense of midwifery. It's just so very female isn't it? And if he hasn't got much experience of women, it just seems a bit... I dunno.... Inappropriate, possibly?

I'm going to tell him about the realities of the job but what are your thoughts?

OP posts:
BramshawHill · 05/09/2014 20:04

I would have no issue with a male midwife, I had a male doctor do an internal on me whilst in labour and a male anaesthetist give me an epidural, why is it acceptable for men to be in the 'higher' positions but not act as a midwife? It is sexism, pure and simple.

mathsgsceresit · 05/09/2014 20:05

Seven - I agree completely with that - anyone has the right to refuse to be treated by any HCP at any time. Absolutely.

But there's nothing wrong with a young man wanting to be a midwife. Or an engineer. Or a trapeze artist. Or any other damn thing he wants to be.

PersonOfInterest · 05/09/2014 20:08

I bow to your wisdom Seattle Wink. I know an RGN who graduated at 20. But not sure when she got registered to work!

In probably my final word on this... Its also nothing like refusing a black or Jewish midwife. There are already many well established exemptions to the sex discrimination act including where there are 'occupational requirements'.

SevenZarkSeven · 05/09/2014 20:10

Same as there's nothing wrong with a female wanting to be anything.

She will still face people not wanting to hire her in certain, traditionally male, environments.

I suppose that's less visible though. I suspect a lot of people wouldn't want a female electrician, or mechanic, for example. But they can quietly take their business elsewhere which is not really possible in an NHS / having a baby type situation.

SeattleGraceMercyDeath · 05/09/2014 20:12

I don't think anyone is arguing that the option to say you'd prefer a female shouldn't be available but the question 'can a young male be a good midwife' has to be answered, yes of course, however some women won't want to be looked after by them.

mathsgsceresit · 05/09/2014 20:15

Absolutely Seven - anyone can want to be anything they want to be.

Prejudice of any kind in any area is lamentable. I just think that to say the young man shouldn't want to be a midwife (which is what I read from the thread) is wrong.

I can refuse to have a male midwife. I can refuse to have a female car mechanic. That doesn't mean there is anything inherently wrong in a man being a midwife or a woman being a car mechanic.

PersonOfInterest · 05/09/2014 20:16

seven Women in jobs like you describe are often in demand from other women who for eg want a female decorator or similar in their home. A situation male midwives aren't going to encounter...

mathsgsceresit · 05/09/2014 20:18

Can someone explain to me why a 17 year old boy would be any less in the right headspace to be a midwife than a 17 year old girl?

SevenZarkSeven · 05/09/2014 20:18

I don't think that, for example, women who have been subject to sexual violence not wanting to have a man with them when they are vulnerable is a "prejudice" is it?

I suppose there needs to be some planning as well. Say there was a really bad recession and lots of men went into midwifery, so the choice was not really there any longer. What then for the women who will absolutely not have a man? And what for the women who will have a man at a push but will be freaked out / traumatised by it?

It's unlikely to happen I know but I don't know what the answer would be if it did.

missymayhemsmum · 05/09/2014 20:19

My son applied for midwifery, he would have made a good midwife I think but the competition for places is really fierce, and I suspect that the admissions tutors are adept at weeding out applications from students who don't have a passionate dedication to midwifery but aren't going to get the grades for medicine

SevenZarkSeven · 05/09/2014 20:19

PersonOfInterest are you arguing that men are discriminated against more in employment situations than women in the UK?

SevenZarkSeven · 05/09/2014 20:20

Remember that there are still roles which are closed to women full stop. Roles in the church for example, which are exempt from the Equalities Act.

mathsgsceresit · 05/09/2014 20:22

OK I picked the wrong word in prejudice and for that I apologise - I mean there's an inbuilt "but a boy can't be a midwife that's for girls" from some posters on here and that is prejudice. I'd never say for one second that anyone couldn't refuse to be treated by anyone that they didn't want to treat them, but there's no reason why that young man shouldn't want to be a midwife.

SevenZarkSeven · 05/09/2014 20:22

I just feel concern that removing the right of vulnerable women to request a female in various situations will have results which are bad at both an individual level and a societal level, and wonder if that is the right way to move.

Don't know.

mathsgsceresit · 05/09/2014 20:24

Seven - I'm not saying women shouldn't have the right to request a woman hcp. Or men a man. And I am sorry if that's how I have come across.

Dayshiftdoris · 05/09/2014 20:24

I used to be a midwife and I trained aged 18. I am female but worked in unit with a lot of male midwives.

Can you handle the job at 18?...

It's a bloody shock and you grow up quick but have seen the same process happen during training in myself at 18, my friends at 18 and my friends in their 20's, 30's, 40's & 50's...
It boils down to the support you have from your family, friends, colleagues and university rather than age.

Of course I was immature at 18 but I learnt how to behave professionally and responsibility very quickly. We all did.

I never had any issues with patients over my age or the fact I was childless at that point. Again it come back to support from mentors... No student should be left to flap - that's the point your mentor steps in to reassure student and woman.

And male midwives. In my experience the women often prefer them! Personally I did not want a male midwife but that was more a desire to have that alpha-female role filled as my mum and I don't have contact.

I think you should encourage him - he could make a fantastic contribution. It will be lovely to be part of watching him grow into a confident practitioner; I have just done that with my friend and teaching and I feel very, very proud even though I was secretly worried for her initially.

TheKitchenWitch · 05/09/2014 20:24

It's not uncommon to separate genders in intimate situations - toilets and changing rooms spring to mind. Surely as a society we generally do recognise that there are times when women are more comfortable with other women, and men with other men?
So surely requesting a particular sex doctor/midwife/nurse etc is not unusual or surprising?

SevenZarkSeven · 05/09/2014 20:27

maths no you didn't Smile I was more responding to posts upthread.

Presumably this young man will be aware that some women will not want to have him, but plenty will be happy to (majority on this thread) so there's no problem there.

PersonOfInterest · 05/09/2014 20:30

Totally agree kitchen.
I believe advertising for a female bra fitter is legal and standard!

No seven I meant that there will always be a niche for women in traditional 'men' jobs. Often other women want to employ them. Though I guess some may be put off.

The equivalent will never happen to a male midwife - other men will take him on to work for them. Well not in the foreseeable future...

Signing off now, night all.

FrancesNiadova · 05/09/2014 20:33

Why should someone not be professional & competent at their job because of their gender?
I find this whole thread outrageous. Biscuit

AllMimsyWereTheBorogoves · 05/09/2014 20:56

I think it's an extremely interesting thread, but becoming very repetitive now. As a PP said, there's actually a huge amount of agreement.

PicandMinx · 05/09/2014 20:56

Every person may be "professional" and "competent" at their job, whatever that job may be. People will and can choose their nurse, doctor, mechanic, dentist, solicitor etc because of their gender. I don't see why this is such an issue. If anyone declined my care, I would just move onto the next patient. I fully support a patients right to choose their HCP.

Answering the OP, if the 17 year old boy thinks he has the right headspace to train as a MW, then he should go for it. It's incredibly competitive and the training is tough. Good luck to him.

MsAnthropic · 05/09/2014 21:55

I had a very traumatic experience with my son's birth - there were 4 separate incidents/issues which resulted in both a hospital complaint and one to the NMC (which resulted in a hearing and a sanction for the midwife involved). The people that left me traumatised were male, female (4 out of the 5), very newly qualified, extremely experienced, white, not-white, English trained, foreign trained. I'm not sure, if I got pregnant again, who I should feel most comfortable with and who to exclude on their belonging to one of these groups ...

Seeking to take that choice away feels wrong to me, both on an empathetic level, and on a practical level, as it will cause a lot of problems which will end up costing more money etc etc
I haven't seen it, but you say that one person on this thread has - out of close to 400 comments. Overwhelmingly, the vast majority by a long way are NOT saying that.

I'd sooner chew off my own arms than have my mother or sister in a room with me in labour, by the way. We're all different.

Its quite conceivable that the support and assistance a woman needs in labour may be best placed coming from another woman.
Sure, but that doesn't mean that another woman wouldn't get support or assistance they're just as happy with from a male midwife - therefore this boy's gender should not preclude him from training any more than it does a young woman.

sanfairyanne · 05/09/2014 22:07

nope sorry, my friend definitely delivered several babies in her first year of training with no other professional in the room
thats the nhs and understaffing for you

AllMimsyWereTheBorogoves · 05/09/2014 23:13

The Trust concernedwould have been taken to the cleaners if anything had gone wrong. That's really shocking.