To not be sure if a 17 year old boy can be in the right headspace to train as a midwife?

[Boysclothes]

I know a few male midwives, all older guys who are nurse converted and are all great. No problem with it at all.

However a friends son wants to be in a caring profession and she has asked me to have a chat with him about becoming a midwife, direct entry so training from next September. She knows a bit about it and thinks the autonomy/quicker progression/pay etc makes it more desirable than being a nurse.

So, I'm just musing here as I know the admissions tutors will make the decision they see fit, but I'm not sure if a just turned 18 year old lad could cope with or make sense of midwifery. It's just so very female isn't it? And if he hasn't got much experience of women, it just seems a bit... I dunno.... Inappropriate, possibly?

I'm going to tell him about the realities of the job but what are your thoughts?

Apart from maybe a penis stunt double.

I'm a nurse and a mum.I don't care if your male, female or an alien as long as your competent and caring.He'll be 21 before he's a qualified midwife and good luck to him!

Gin
Do engineers look closely at/touch women's genitals during one of the most vulnerable times in their lives, then?

I don't think that is an issue for all women. We all have different things we are comfortable with.

If a women, for whatever reason would prefer not to have a male MW then she the right is to ask for a female one. Each woman has a choice. Some women will feel vulnerable when giving birth and will have strong feelings on this issue and some won't.

When I was in labour with DS2, I really wasn't bothered maybe because I was being monitored (VBAC) and had had an epidural so it all felt a bit more medical than initimate. I didn't feel the slightest bit vulnerable but I fully accept that other women do and that is perfectly valid.

I doubt the number of male MW would ever be high enough to mean that a women couldn't request a female MW. And I wouldn't be bothered about a male MW so would have happily swapped if another women didn't want a male MW (as I said in a PP I did have a male med student having his first go at internal examinations when I was in labour).

i know first year midwives who have delivered babies on their own

If they were in the room on their own, making independent decisions on the woman's care then their mentors should be reported.

Yes student midwives deliver babies but there should always be a qualified member of staff there to take over or provide support etc if required except in limited situations towards the end of third year when a 'confidence case' may be deemed appropriate.

Yes 1st years do, I have too but not totally alone. The mentor is there with hands poised, ready of needed. The mentor is there to double check, to listen to fetal heart with student to make sure all is well. The student is not alone. Therefore the argument about experience is not valid.

I didn't encounter any male midwives during my pregnancy but had plenty of students. Some were better than others, which is the same in any profession. I did encounter male Consultants.

I also volunteered to be part of an assessment for a medical student when I was 39 weeks pregnant. It happened to be a male student. It hadn't occurred to me that it would be an issue before hand and it wasn't.

He was very nervous but clearly very capable. We had a long chat as he had to take a complete history and then he palpated my v large abdomen and listened for the heartbeat.

I was happy to help a future Doctor out and I didn't have a straightforward pregnancy so there was lots of talk about bleeding cervixes and what had causes it (like sex etc). I felt no more awkward discussing it with him than I would have with a female student.

I appreciate there was no internal exam but under supervision (due to him being unqualified not because he was male) I would have been happy to let him go ahead.

How else do young people who may make excellent Doctors, midwives, nurses etc get to learn? For me, being male is irrelevant. Being competent and having a good manner is the important bit!

From my experience, it's nothing to do with gender. Some people who become medical professionals have empathy and sympathy; some don't. The latter may have the intellectual necessities, but by God, I'd much, much, much rather have a caring man than an uncaring woman in any circumstance. I've met men with knowledge who care; I've met women ditto. I've met both who don't.
But in ALL cases, I really don't think they notice gender that much when it comes to saving lives. They are doing a tough job, to the best of their (limited, human) abilities.

I'd be wary about any teenager in any walk of life who'd been pushed there by his mother. I'd feel sorry for him in the first place - it's his future, not hers. But if the young man in question is really, honestly interested, then he should go ahead.

I think that both women and men should be allowed to request treatment from a person of a certain sex, and I think that removing this will result in a massive amount of problems with people not getting treatment for things. And the people mainly affected would be vulnerable women.

I have no problem with a young man wanting to train as a MW. I expect some women may refuse his care at some point in his career. As a female HCP, I have had many men refuse my care because of my gender. As a woman, I would refuse ANY care from a male HCP. My choice. I know all the blah blah blah about the NHS being gender neutral etc, but I've been around male HCP's far too long to believe that that are all professional.

The question asked isn't "do I have the right to refuse to have a male midwife" (to which the answer is yes, of course you do, absolutely)

The question is "Is it appropriate for a 17 year old boy to be a midwife"

Yes, of course it is - as long as it's what HE wants to be, why shouldn't he want to be one?

And why is it only care in pregnancy and birth that it's inappropriate and why only if he's a midwife, not a doctor or another sort of HCP?

I hope he does it and succeeds! Good for him. So long as it's what he wants and not his mother pushing him towards it.
When giving birth to DD, if I was presented with a young male midwife I wouldn't have given a rats arse. They're there to do a job. Not go 'oooh fanny'.

poster SevenZarkSeven

The whole issue is a red herring my husband has had women refuse to be treated by him because he is a male

However they arrived in a ambulance staffed my two make paramedics and untimely were seen by a male doctor given put to sleep by a man and operated on by 2 male surgeons who saw much more of the women's in question lady that my husband would off

So when women won't be seen by a male nurse but for some blizzare reason don't have any issues when the male in question is a dr it makes me wonder if the said woman is not just being a arse

I had a male student midwife, he was amazing. He physically help me up when my legs went during a contraction. He kept me calm, he chatted about fishing with my dh, he was a really calm presence and helped me greatly (he didn't get to deliver due to shift change during a 26hour labour but I wish he had.) Oh and he did internal exams on me under supervision no problem.

It's a red herring?

You cannot imagine situations where a person might avoid treatment / seeking help / or might end up traumatised if they were not able to have their choice on this?

You would remove that option?

Urology is a specialism of medicine that someone would arrive at after many years of general medical study followed by specialist training. It's really not comparable to midwifery.

As saucy says upthread, there is no equivalent If there was, there'd be just as much call for male nurses in that specialism I'd imagine.

Incidentally summer born midwives can graduate at the age of 20 pedant alert

There is a poster on this thread who knew a young man who died because he did not want to see his female GP about something and by the time he went it was too far along.

Is that a red herring?

Thinking about it.

Many women I know had their mum / sister there when they gave birth.

I don't know anyone who had their dad or brother.

Women aren't generally raised to be comfortable showing their genitals to men they are not in an intimate relationship with, even family.
Many women have experienced sexual violence.

I am always surprised that so many women on MN don't get this. You don't mind a bloke, fine. Others do. Seeking to take that choice away feels wrong to me, both on an empathetic level, and on a practical level, as it will cause a lot of problems which will end up costing more money etc etc

Actually we didn't 'qualify' until 2nd September so not our way they can't

Plus without being silly and pedantic (me, not you) it takes bloody months for NMC and NHS administration cogs to grind into action so if any summer born midwives were employed before their 21st birthday I'll eat my hat

But I am not saying in any way shape or form that you HAVE to have a male HCP attend to you at any time.

All I am saying is there is nothing at all wrong with a young man wanting to be a midwife.

As an aside, I'd much rather have DS attend to me in labour, he'd be respectful and caring and comforting, DD would freak out, panic, and want the whole thing over and done with as soon as possible by any means.

As a side note, could people please stop comparing urology and gynaecology???

Gynae patients are by definition female.

Urology patients might be male or female. Because urology is not just about willies, but about the urinary tract and kidneys!

If you want a comparator, try andrology.....

I had a male midwife for baby 4 he was amazing much much better than the near retirement midwife with baby 2 who threatened to slap me!!! Whilst giving birth to 9 1/2 lb baby and gas and air had ran out.
Also my friends son is training to be a GP he is a truly lovely caring young man and anyone who has him as a GP will be very lucky.
Being a woman doesn't mean you're automatically in touch with women and giving birth. It's totally down to the individual.

Also on the male drs thing.......

A woman may very much not want a man to intimately examine her but there may also only be one consultant on the ward and if she needs emergency treatment, she will swallow her upset because there is no choice. Doesn't mean she's comfortable.

And, people tend still to be deferential to drs. I am quite assertive but it would take a lot for me to say I didn't want to see a dr, to his face.

hooby you answered me ages ago but in case you're still here, I think you didn't get what I was saying. I don't think your experience is relevant here because although it sounds horribly traumatic, you don't have a basic fear of being touched by men. A woman who has been raped - and that's a not-inconsiderable minority - might have. So in that case it might matter to her very much what the sex of her dr was, even if she ultimately felt she had no choice but to go with him.

It's a fine profession for a young man or woman to go into.

However while I had a male trainee midwife at my first labour (and loads of male consultants/surgeons by the end of it) and was happy to, it's easy to understand surely that there are lots of reasons women may not want to see a male midwife?

This includes simply being uncomfortable (as said women are not generally
socialised to be showing off bits to male doctors anyway) or embarrassed, or being traumatised.

You cannot compare midwifery to urology or midwifery to engineering. (Easier to compare nursery childcare to engineering perhaps, or primary teaching).

There is a long history of male doctors deciding what happens to women in labour - not always making the choices women would make.

You can't overturn that overnight.

I'd encourage the boy in the OP if he really wants to do it. But he needs to understand that it's fine if women don't want to be treated by him.

maths at least one poster has though.

On these threads there are always one or two who say that a woman wanting a female HCP for intimate / sensitive matters is discriminating and should not be accommodated on the NHS.

i disagree with that, strongly.