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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To not be sure if a 17 year old boy can be in the right headspace to train as a midwife?

618 replies

Boysclothes · 05/09/2014 11:26

I know a few male midwives, all older guys who are nurse converted and are all great. No problem with it at all.

However a friends son wants to be in a caring profession and she has asked me to have a chat with him about becoming a midwife, direct entry so training from next September. She knows a bit about it and thinks the autonomy/quicker progression/pay etc makes it more desirable than being a nurse.

So, I'm just musing here as I know the admissions tutors will make the decision they see fit, but I'm not sure if a just turned 18 year old lad could cope with or make sense of midwifery. It's just so very female isn't it? And if he hasn't got much experience of women, it just seems a bit... I dunno.... Inappropriate, possibly?

I'm going to tell him about the realities of the job but what are your thoughts?

OP posts:
ElephantsNeverForgive · 05/09/2014 16:14

I suspect a 17y old boy who knows he wants to enter a caring profession like nursing or midwifery is in a much better "Head Space" than lots of medical students who can see past the next A*.

No one would bat an eyelid if he wanted to be a paramedic, and they fetch up delivering babies, with very very minimal expertise.

ElephantsNeverForgive · 05/09/2014 16:14

Can't

QueenCardigan · 05/09/2014 16:15

Some of the responses on this thread sadden and anger me. This country is crying out for decent nurses and midwives and who cares if they're male or female. Surely what matters is that they are good at their job.

I was a nurse and my first post was on a urology ward so pretty much dealing with willies every single day. Just because I don't have a willy doesn't mean I wasn't a good nurse. I then went on to become an oncology nurse but I've never had cancer or chemotherapy. Just because he's a bloke doesn't mean he can't enjoy and be good at helping women through their pregnancies and initial post natal period.

And for those of you saying you'd be refusing a male midwife, I'd bet you'd be the first to complain if another patient refused a 'black' nurse....

NewName123 · 05/09/2014 16:16

I think he would be deemed at the interview not to have enough life experience. I don't think it is a profession for a teenage girl either. Too much responsibility

sanfairyanne · 05/09/2014 16:18

has he got any chance at all of getting on the course? it is usually v competitive isnt it, and any 17 year old would find it hard to get on, let alone one whose mum thinks ots the right job for them

SeattleGraceMercyDeath · 05/09/2014 16:22

In my cohort we were split 50/50 of those of us who came straight from school (so 18, not 17) and those of us who we're coming to it a bit older having done different things. I'll say again. Some of those 18 year olds have gone on to be some of the very best midwives I know. And actually the 45 year old mother of 4 was bloody hopeless and didn't qualify until 18 months after the rest of us.

ElephantsNeverForgive · 05/09/2014 16:25

Also I'm sorry, but I find I had a bad experience with one male doctor, so now I don't trust all male HCP a very odd thing to say.

hoobypickypicky · 05/09/2014 16:27

"hooby all that proves that is in extreme distress, people will stifle real pain and discomfort to access help."

That's not necessarily so, RevoltingPeasant. It may also prove that what's between your legs is far less important than what's in your head and how big your heart is.

Of the 2 times I stared death in the face one was an emergency where I was in real pain and distress. The other was a potentially terminal disease fought over a long period without any immediate urgency and without pain. They were two very different situations but my reactions to the gender of those saving my life was the same.

douchbag · 05/09/2014 16:27

When I had my eldest dd I had a male midwife. Yabu

CalamitouslyWrong · 05/09/2014 16:55

But the OP is not at all about whether women should or should not be able to choose whether a HCP treats them or not (whether it's because they have suffered abuse and don't want a male HCP or because they just don't think midwifery is for 'boys'). It's about whether midwifery is an inapprorpiate career for a young man.

That sort of thinking is up there with 'well girls just can't do engineering' and is completely separate from the choices of patients.

PersonOfInterest · 05/09/2014 17:21

I hate these threads where people compare male midwives with male Dr's.

There is no parallel with 18 year olds doing medical training and midwifery.

Student midwives will be on their own with women in a matter of months.

Student Dr's rarely go into medicine with a specialism in mind. Let alone one so focused on vaginas.

In an emergency, medical situation most of us want the best possible/experienced/qualified medical care - regardless of gender.

This is totally different from the criteria for a 'normal' birth. Its quite conceivable that the support and assistance a woman needs in labour may be best placed coming from another woman. There's nothing 'sad' about this.

Its a hugely responsible, mature, job one that I'd like to see only open to people with previous degrees or relevant experience. The idea of a 20 year old graduate (of either gender) midwife makes my blood run cold. You'd never find a student Dr of this age with so much responsibility.

Iwasinamandbunit · 05/09/2014 17:24

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

divingoffthebalcony · 05/09/2014 17:25

Couldn't agree more with everything you just said, PersonOfInterest.

HomeHelpMeGawd · 05/09/2014 17:25

I think there's a lot more apparent disagreement on this thread than actual disagreement. In particular, the vast majority of people seem to agree:

  • a person should be able to choose a profession irrespective of gender
  • a person should be able to decline elective care from an HCP (and I would add, should not have to give reasons for their decision)
  • emergency care may change a person's calculus of whether to decline care
  • no-one wants an immature, unkind idiot to provide their care

How about building out the rest of the list of things most of us agree on?

slithytove · 05/09/2014 17:36

I had a bad experience with 2 student HCPS, now I won't see any of them.

Is that any better or worse than restricting it by gender? I assume it's acceptable?

I personally believe that childbirth is so personal, emotional and potentially traumatic, that the needs of the patient to get her as calm and happy as possible should be met. No matter how offensive or prejudiced.

RandomFriend · 05/09/2014 17:36

With the idea of building on HHMG's list of things that we can agree upon, may I suggest:

  • training has to start somewhere
  • it is a good idea for 17-year-olds to get lots of information about different jobs/training options from people who currently do those jobs
  • there may be minimum age for starting some types of training
  • in giving advice to young people about potential jobs, avoid suggesting that a potential idea they have would be inappropriate for reasons of gender.
holidaysarenice · 05/09/2014 17:37

Medical students are on placement from day 1. Many here in Scotland are only 17.

You would be surprised how many female medical students don't have the vaguest notion of a vagina and it's anatomy. One female student with me thought she had a prostate!!

So jo his knowledge won't come from the porn program someone mentioned but from studying a textbook.

Medical and midwifery or nursing students all come over best when try have confidence and good communication skills, not a penis versus breasts.

I would welcome him as a student midwife with me, as I would any student so long as his mentor wa there too.

Fair play to him.

slithytove · 05/09/2014 17:38

And fwiw, I am ok with either gender treating me under any circumstances. It's age and experience I 'discriminate' by.

My (case loading 121) midwife is 24 btw, she is fab.

HomeHelpMeGawd · 05/09/2014 17:44

Thank you, Random Friend

Here's a few more:

  • there are many legitimate reasons for declining treatment by a particular HCP, and there are also some reasons which would be illegitimate if vocalised, but none of this matters because a right to decline does not depend on having a good reason, it is absolute
  • childbirth is more likely to trigger some of these reasons than other procedures, because it is more intimate
  • many men have used their power as obstetricians in ways that have harmed women in the past
  • reasons for declining are always profoundly personal, so that what is a problem for one person is not necessarily a problem for another
AnnaFiveTowns · 05/09/2014 17:45

I do not think it appropriate for young males to be midwives. I say this as a feminist who believes in equal rights for men and women. There are just some jobs that are more suited to males or females - and midwifery is one of them. In the same way that I'd prefer a female doctor if I was going to be examined intimately, I'd prefer a woman to help me to deliver my baby. And I think if most women are honest they would too. It's not sexist - it's just natural to feel more at ease with another woman when you're naked and vulnerable. And, yes, many doctors are men but in an ideal world women should be given the option of having a woman examine her (intimately) instead of a man. It's a matter of dignity. When competition for midwifery places is fierce, I find it absurd to train males.

IAmAPaleontologist · 05/09/2014 17:49

so which jobs do you think it is inappropriate for women to do then Anna if you think there ate sine jobs better suited to men and some to women?

frankly I find your comment absurd. What makes you suitable is your attitude, your outlook, your passion. Not your sex.

PeachyParisian · 05/09/2014 17:50

good for him, but i certainly wouldn't want a 17yr old boy looking at my fanjo. Wouldn't want a female teenager either though.

CouldntGiveAMonkeysToss · 05/09/2014 17:50

I wouldn't have a problem with a male midwife, I see nothing wrong with a 17 yr old male training as a midwife. Good for him if that's what he wants to do but I have been sexually abused and raped and I could barely cope with a female, I screamed uncontrollably though the examinations but was told I had to have them, it was extremely painful. There is no way I could ever consent to a male doing it. I'd be fine with a man doing everything else though.

Pandora37 · 05/09/2014 17:53

His age won't go against him. I know loads of midwives who went straight into it from school and most of them are fab. One had just turned 18 yet she still had 6 months experience as an HCA, including working in palliative care and being with people when they died. I was amazed by her because I don't think I could have coped seeing somebody dying at 17/18 but she spoke of her experiences with real maturity. She gets excellent feedback from her placements and has had journal articles published. She's going to go far.

His sex wouldn't be a concern for me, more his maturity and emotional intelligence. He also needs to be aware of the responsibility and how insanely tough, hard work it is. He needs to be aware that sadly some women will object to him being there and that he is likely to receive surprised reactions from people over his choice of career and may receive comments from members of staff or they may gossip behind his back. He'll need an extremely thick skin to cope with that sort of thing. If he seems the type who may not withstand it, he might be better off in mental health nursing as they seem to have a fair number of male students or adult nursing.

That said, his mum shouldn't be pushing him into it just because she sees it as more desirable. I think maternity has one of the highest, if not the highest, record of legal action against them in the NHS and it's the midwives who generally take the flak. That is very scary. I'd find out what he knows about it and whether he's genuinely interested in it, not just because his mum thinks it's a good idea. If he is, I'd encourage him to read up on the role as much as he can and try and get some experience, even if it's just sitting in on an NCT class or something, just to get an insight.

And yeah, as I'm sure you're aware it's very hard to get onto the course so he's got to be genuinely passionate about it, the tutors will see right through him if he isn't. Some people can take a few years to get onto the course, would he and his mother be prepared to wait that long? If you really think he's unsuited you could always comment on how hard it is to get onto and that he might have a better shot at adult nursing as there are more places available plus he could always train as a midwife afterwards, that way he would have LOADS of options.

mathsgsceresit · 05/09/2014 17:54

This thread saddens me. We cannot have equal rights for women if we don't give men the same.

DS aged 18 was working as a care assistant in a nursing home dealing with intimate situations with both male and female patients. He has also worked with young children. Should he be discounted on the grounds of his gender?

I don't see the issue, by the time the young man is trained he will be competent and able to do the job. If not, he won't be a midwife.