To not be sure if a 17 year old boy can be in the right headspace to train as a midwife?

[Boysclothes]

I know a few male midwives, all older guys who are nurse converted and are all great. No problem with it at all.

However a friends son wants to be in a caring profession and she has asked me to have a chat with him about becoming a midwife, direct entry so training from next September. She knows a bit about it and thinks the autonomy/quicker progression/pay etc makes it more desirable than being a nurse.

So, I'm just musing here as I know the admissions tutors will make the decision they see fit, but I'm not sure if a just turned 18 year old lad could cope with or make sense of midwifery. It's just so very female isn't it? And if he hasn't got much experience of women, it just seems a bit... I dunno.... Inappropriate, possibly?

I'm going to tell him about the realities of the job but what are your thoughts?

Student nurses are dealing with both genders though, not exclusively women.

Calamitiouslywrong - I actually know social workers who are appalled that people can now go into social work so young. I do think there are some jobs you need a bit of life experience to do well.

A lot of sad responses on here. There should be nothing wrong with young men wanting to become midwives, it's in many respects a great job, with lots of autonomy, alright money as you progress and management opportunities if you're that way inclined. An 18 year old man is just as capable of being on the road to being a great midwife as an 18 year old woman (who can be just as giggly and immature as lads btw). Having said that, some of the best midwives I know I started my training with when they were just 18, they matured a lot during the course but they always had the makings of a great midwife.

Midwifery is a vocation in many respects, but for some people it isn't, so long as they can put their game face on and treat each and every woman and their families with the respect they deserve Then man or woman, they deserve the chance.

i wouldnt have a problem with a male midwife all my obs/gyna consultants have been men. whats the difference?

but this strikes me as odd , went for a upper gi appointment last week
dr had to call in a female nurse so he could exam my stomach???

so would that mean a male midwife would not be allowed to perform any examinations without a female chaperone??

If he wants to be a midwife, can get on to the course and would suit the job, he should go for it.

I don't see any contradiction with saying that and also continuing to refuse all students involvement in my medical care, and not to intimately examined by a male (or a trans female if I knew or suspected).

Female nurse here. I deal with penises on a daily basis. My lack of penis makes me no less qualified to do so. I can understand why some people would prefer a female midwife, but if the person is mature, caring and trained I can't say I would be bothered. I would want a qualified professional helping me squeeze a baby out.
I was a wet behind the ears 18 year old when I started my nurse training, my training rapidly matured me into the nurse I am now.

It would be as much for the male professional's comfort as my own that I would decline intimate care from a man. I once consented to gyno care from a male Dr at a GUM clinic, and the experience was terrible for both of us, to the extreme that following examination I was asked and consented to sign to say my care had been entirely appropriate. I was then referred for counselling. If I'd had such a reaction during my labour it would have caused problems that could have been simply avoided by only being internally examined in an environment in which I was comfortable. I don't think that's sexist or discriminatory, more an understanding that people are different and have different care needs. And, after recalling that, I'm off to take some valium, see if I can get my heart beat back to normal and stop sweating, whilst I push uncomfortable memories back to the pit of avoidance where they belong.

NoodleOodle That sounds like it's something that was dreadfully affecting, and I really have a lot of sympathy as I experienced ongoing trauma after my birth experiences. I really do understand what it feels like to feel violated and treated badly and without empathy during intimate examinations and to suffer flashbacks and distress when recalling them.

But I have no idea what that has to do with whether this young man, or any other man, should train as a midwife, nurse, doctor or obstetrician.

So sorry NoodleOodle, I missed your earlier comment where you said "If he wants to be a midwife, can get on to the course and would suit the job, he should go for it."

I agree and don't think any woman should be forced to have a male HCP if it's going to cause severe distress.

'Med students won't see a patent until they are 21/22'

This is completely untrue. With the exception of Oxbridge all medical schools now do an integrated cours with early patient contact (from year 1). 18 year old medical students do see patients.

Op Yabu. Would you have the same objection to an 17 year old male wanting to be an obstetrician?

He'll be as old as any other newly qualified midwife when he starts.
Midwifery means WITH the woman. You don't need to be a woman, nor do you need to have had children or be an expert on female anatomy before you start. And it's unlikely most female starters are either.

Wouldn't bother me and I think you're being patronizing. Good on him!

fluffymouse, I know of at least one medical school where most medical students have hardly any patient contact until third year. This is likely to change in the near future.

It's odd as recalling Doctor In The House, that standard work on the history of medical education, the students seemed to be on the wards from very early on back in the 50s. What changed?

Sorry, meant to say, and the one I know about isn't Oxford or Cambridge.

I am happy to be seen by male HCP and I've had several urology operations with a male surgeon.

However I think there is a real power imbalance that most people seem to be ignoring.

Yes, most senior obstetricians are male, and we have little choice if we are high risk but to be treated by one. However that male dominance in a field where the patients are entirely female has definitely led to a historical culture (IMO) of misogyny. Obstetrics has some really dark moments in its past, around lack of patient consent, treating women like meat, performing unnecessarily painful procedures for HCP convenience, and over-medicalisation.

Just as one e.g., I read a paper from The Lancet from the late 70s recently, which described subjecting women without consent to a very painful procedure intended to speed up labour. It divided those who didn't object and those who did into 'docile' or 'hysterical' patients. Even today, medical language around birth can be positively Victorian: my antenatal notes discuss my 'confinement' for example.

Another would be that Australian obstetrician (CBA to google) who fairly recently mapped the anatomy of the clitoris properly--gobsmacking that such a discovery has been so recent.

My point is, there is a long, long history of a powerful male medical establishment which treated women often like farm animals, or at least like second-class citizens. I don't think that legacy has entirely gone away. And I do think that it's a problem that the senior ranks of obstetrics are so dominated by men still. There is no comparable situation, where ranks of men are effectively compelled to submit to senior women doctors in distressing, intimate situations in the same way. It's just disingenuous to suggest there is.

In such a climate, many women will feel uncomfortable being examined by men; a male-dominated gynae ward would be a problem; and women have the right to refuse IEs by men.

All that doesn't mean you can't have male midwives (which are nothing new by the way; been around since about the 1740s at least). But it's not just personal prejudice on the part of women to be uncomfortable around male HCP in intimate situations.

How long do you study midwifery before coming into contact with patients?

Same question for medicine, same question for nursing?

I think that will make a difference.

I was out on practice placements after about 2-3 months of starting Uni doing nursing

Ok, I would reject any 18 year old student.

I would consider but probably reject an older student (bad experiences)

Gender doesn't come into it for me.

DH always requests a male doctor. This is his right and I fully support it.

If someone were to request a female HCP for any reason, even if there is a "fully trained, qualified and competent male" available, I think it should be provided on the NHS.

Why should some who has suffered sexual abuse, or is of a certain religion, or just uncomfortable with the opposite gender be punished financially for it.

I have no issues with midwifes being male but does the young man in question actually want to be a midwife or is it mother thin king he can be more quickly promoted being a midwife? I,m a mental health nurse if its career progression people want I think its quite easy to progress quite/quickly as a nurse .

If someone were to request a female HCP for any reason, even if there is a "fully trained, qualified and competent male" available, I think it should be provided on the NHS.

I don't think this is always feasible in emergency settings.

As good as that would be there isn't always the staff for that.
I work in a dept of approximately 25 nurses, two are men. If someone wants an all male team (2 nurses) we try to sort it but it's just not always possible.

A young man wishes to be a qualified health care professional. Call the police, it's all wrong!

As a woman who's twice stared death in the face you can take it from me that when you really need that HCP you won't give a shit whether he's a she or she's a he, whether s/he's black or white, Muslim or Jew, gay or straight. All you'll care about is getting through to the other side alive.

I wish the young man all the luck in the world because, let's face it, in view of some of the responses on this thread the poor sod's going to need it.

I had a young male med student in the room along with the female MW when I was having DS2. He was lovely if nervous. It was his first ever birth so even I had more experience than him as it was my second. I was asked if I minded him being there but it really didn't bother me.

I was fine about him doing internals because I had reached the point where I really didn't care who inspected my fanjo. Also I had had an epidural so I wasn't too worried if he was a little bit clumsy as it was the first time he had done one.

I just think that's a rather a strange choice of job for a boy.

hooby all that proves that is in extreme distress, people will stifle real pain and discomfort to access help.

It doesn't prove that patients should be routinely subjected to discomfort in non-emergency situations.

Like I said, I have no problem with being examined by qualified male HCP. But I do have the imagination to see that a woman who has been raped might find it very upsetting. It doesn't make me angry that someone who has been through a negative experience would have a bad reaction in a situation where she's already in pain and frightened.