AIBU about the Calais migrants?

[Sunny67]

Having read another story today about the Calais migrants trying to get to the UK is it unreasonable to think that there are many safe countries before you get here?
Before anyone shouts racist, I'm not talking about people fleeing war zones and ending up it camps. I'm asking why people want to cross the channel and not stop in France or a previous country?

We don't need the worlds' losers leeching off the British taxpayer. We need the worlds' finest choosing to call Britain home.

I agree. Those Martians are talentless bastards, after all.

Amazing what difference the placing of an apostrophe or two makes, isn't it?

I think the point being made, dreamingbohemian, is that everyone who doesn't want stateless people to be denied any self-determination is a raging leftie communist in the image of Stalin. Tbf, they've got a point - to my mind, there's a fair few on this thread that would benefit society most from being in a gulag, seeing as how their responses demonstrate that they have problems finding their arses with both hands and a map, so I don't see what they have to offer to UK or indeed any society.

Ah thanks cruikshank. I'll go back to my bread line now.

long fingers we already have unscrupulous landlords putting sheds in their back gardens for impoverished migrants then pretending it's a shed not a dwelling so they don't get stung for council tax.

I wonder what would have happened if there hadn't been colonisation, there would probably be bloodshed, look at the selfish despot dictators, they may have seized power anyway.

the migrants often bring their own baggage and issues, they may be like the dictators for all we know and dangerous.

Also I think young people especially from the EU will live in overcrowded house, often illegally and will take the lower paid roles because to them having 8-10 people in a house is no big deal.

yes the whole situation is unsustainable already especially in the SE. the school down the road is growing by a 1/3 and goodness knows what the traffic and parking will be like. we like it here but you know in 10 years' it will be awful.

I really dislike all the migrants who are using goodness of this country...lots of people come here like a parasites and if anyone dares to say anything they are branded racist......
If it is desperation then surely by the law they have to claim asylum in the first country they step once they leave their own country.
No,i call that milking of the system,bringing more criminals in the country. All of those people from Calais France should deport back to Italy (most came through the Italy)....... but no,they want benefits,housing,nhs,social security..
I love UK but UK is too soft,too proper,keeping to the law,trying to help everyone....and everyone is using that.

Thefishwife - I didn't actually say that, someone else did.

Ikea - I'm glad you picked up on the use of the word "illegals" to describe human beings.

Dreaming - also thanks for making that point about high rises. The British antipathy towards living in flats is utterly inexplicable. In plenty of other countries (not communist ones either), high rises have great floorspace and amenities.

Cruik - I'm still fishing my eyebrows out of my hair from someone asserting the US has lower levels of undocumented immigration.

Actually Arabella your point about unaccompanied men is a good one. I don't like to see desperation but why is it only the men-whatv is happening to the women back home? Are they being left to starve?

No Apple, the men are hoping to get work to send money back to their families.

For some of them, passage to the UK will have cost them and their families all the money they have, they don't have enough money to bring their families with them too.

handcream and Cruikshank, what makes you think capitalism works so well? With poverty, oil wars, religious killing- capitalism has killed far more people than communism ever has.
And communism has barely been tried. Communism and stalinism are completely different. Do some reading before making assumptions. One ideology might have been inspired by the other but you might as well say that all Muslims are Jihadists, which is equally ludicrous.
Communism means a strong state, string public services and no private shareholders taking everything everything. It means equality.

What an unpleasant thread.

Interesting how so many people here refuse to let the facts get in the way of a good story.

A relatively paltry 8.4% of asylum seekers in the European Union come to the U.K. The vast majority seek asylum in other countries, mainly:

1. Germany (23.2%)
2. France (18.3%)
3. Sweden (13.1%)
4. Belgium and U.K. (8.4% each)

(Source: www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-24636868)

To answer the OP, who asked the question with clearly no interest in the answer, most asylum seekers do not cross the English Channel, eyes set only on the U.K. They mostly settle in other countries.

Having said this, and having lived across Europe for the last 20 years, imho the British underestimate just how socially acceptable it is to be overtly racist in countries like France and Germany. Immigrant groups form an underclass in many countries in a way that is not necessarily the case in the U.K. and social mobility is very difficult.

The only reason the courts should be involved is if there is a dispute about WHETHER they are here legally or not. Ancillary considerations like the so-called 'right' to a family life should play no part.

There is a case going through the courts where 2 children under the age of 10 are currently living in Britain with their British father.

Until their mother died they lived with her in an African country.

They entered the country on tourist visas so are here illegally. They have no family in their 'old' country. They would have to live in an orphanage.

I think their case depends on the right to a family life.

Could you put them on a plane?

Communism means a strong state, string public services and no private shareholders taking everything everything. It means equality.

In theory. Hasn't worked quite so well in practice, has it?

Neither has capitalism.

Calais is a scary place to be right now. I was there last weekend, there were lots and lots of men standing around outside the port and the atmosphere was terrible. Security is high there and we saw French police with guns as we were checking in. You can understand why the Calais natives are sick of it all.

Janine

Currently there are 4 one party communist countries Laos, Cuba, China and Vietnam. 1/3 of the population of Laos live below the international poverty line of US $1.25 per day and it ranks as the 25th hungriest country in the world. It has a poor record of human rights.

China is of course a burgeoning economy with extreme disparities of wealth and income and an appalling record of human rights.

Vietnam experiences high levels of income equality , disparities in access to healthcare and a lack of gender equality.

Cuba is probably the best of the lot and does have a good health and education system.

I have been in Cuba, China, USSR (pre-dissolution of the Soviet Union) East Germany and Albania. I doubt very much if the majority in the former East European Communist countries want to revert to Communism.

You can of course easily produce a list of terrible capitalist regimes but on the whole life is far better in regulated capitalist democracies such as in Europe, Canada, New Zealand and Australia.

It's funny all these people with views about communism having never experienced it! I have travelled to Laos and more recently Vietnam. For those of you Who think it works - it doesn't - look at the old USSR.

Of course if you think it does I am sure you would be welcomed with open arms.

Actually handcream, I have spent a fair bit of time living in Russia, and there are plenty of people there who hanker for the old days, just because at least then they were housed, fed, warm and paid, none of which are guaranteed now. Guybrush, I agree with you that capitalism doesn't work well at all - all that happens is that you get a group of very powerful people at the top passing large sums of money around between themselves, without any scrutiny or transparency, because it's called the 'market' - but of course the market is rigged.

Most refugees are women and children, the fact that these are all men suggests they're not, the fact that they're prepared to refuse accomadation, benefits and safety for the promise of a much more generous welfare in Britain shows that they are not that desperate, that their wants are not security but financial and the fact that they are moving only for a more generous welfare system shows that their intentions are not to work hard for a better life and contribute to society but to leech everything they can get from the system. Exactly the type of people that no country benefits from importing. Britain has enough wasters of it's own, it doesn't need all the lazy grabbers of the world too.

I feel very sorry for the locals of Calais who have seen their neighbourhood destroyed and their personal safety constantly threatened. They deserve to be protected from that and their government has failed them.

I think the EU needs to step up on stopping the people who are profiting on trafficking the men to Calais. I suspect they are economic migrants and I think if amnesty is granted it encourages more to come.

Interesting thread no frump. I think there is an exaggerated response to the issue of illegal migrants to the UK as overall we have taken in so many immigrants under other circumstances. Those from our former colonies, their dependents and descendants, huge numbers from the EU, as well as foreign nationals on student visas who do not go back and those from countries who are able to provide us with workers in certain industries such as health care and catering. There are other countries we have agreements with such as Brazil, America and Australia. The German , French and Swedish way of life has not been altered to the same extent as it has in Britain.

I was recently on a bus in East London. Judging by the languages spoken I was one of the few British people on board. People there are fed up with their way of life and communities being broken down so quickly. The local school has doubled in size , the white British intake is less than 5%.

As no frump says, there is far more racism in France and Germany. The response to what is seen as a threat to identity and way of life in some areas of the UK has been white British flight.

The German , French and Swedish way of life has not been altered to the same extent as it has in Britain.

I assume you have lived in Germany, France and Sweden? How did you personally find being an immigrant apple? I assume you learnt and spoke the local languages so as not to annoy people with your foreign language on busses.

Judging by the languages spoken I was one of the few British people on board. People there are fed up with their way of life and communities being broken down so quickly.

Perhaps some of the people daring to speak another language are British and are bilingual or multi-lingual? Is that a problem for you too, Apple? Or is it just people who are pure foreigners that you object to?

And, this is a question I've NEVER had an answer to –what is this way of life and communities you're so concerned about? Can you articulate what that is, and can you also articulate why people who may have different languages and backgrounds to you threaten it or 'break it down' quite so much?

Apple
I was recently on a bus in East London. Judging by the languages spoken I was one of the few British people on board

Like Only says some British people speak more than one language. My DC were born in London but they would be speaking Arabic if they were with DH (who is also British now). My DC identify themselves as British, play Rugby and Cricket, support England at Football etc. yet you would casually dismiss them as non-British because they sometimes talk another language?