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AIBU?

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Original poster

AIBU about the Calais migrants?

240 replies

Sunny67 · 04/09/2014 17:26

Having read another story today about the Calais migrants trying to get to the UK is it unreasonable to think that there are many safe countries before you get here?
Before anyone shouts racist, I'm not talking about people fleeing war zones and ending up it camps. I'm asking why people want to cross the channel and not stop in France or a previous country?

OP posts:
Vitalstatistix · 04/09/2014 17:53

don't be so ridiculously dismissive with your 'next' rubbish.

Just because it is the man who has come to try to get to somewhere where there is money and work, in no way means that his family situation in the country of origin is not as described. In fact, it is often exactly that. And it is quite clear to anyone who actually bothered to read my post with their mind open, that I described a person in their country, in their situation as their reason for attempting migration.

It is quite common for one person to make their way and send money/send for their family at a later date. This does not make anything I said untrue or inaccurate.

I at no point said they were dragging their children onto the ferry. Simply described the life that quite often leads to the choice to try for a better future.

Next.

SouthernComforts · 04/09/2014 17:56

Ah ok makes sense. So how do the French authorities deal with it? To be blunt is it their problem, not the UK, as they are on French land?

scaevola · 04/09/2014 17:57

"You know, if the UK were in a location where it's the bordering 'troubled' countries and therefore usually the first country refugees arrive in, there would be an outcry here about how unfair it is and how other, further away countries, should take refugees as well ..."

In these cases the UNHCR steps in, building camps, supplying aid, co-ordinating charities. And secures agreement from other non-contiguous countries to resettle refugees. The example that sprang to my mind was when UK took in Vietnamese Boat People, and there are many others.

TheVermiciousKnid · 04/09/2014 17:57

Well said, I couldn't agree more.

ArabellaTarantella · 04/09/2014 17:58

So Vital - give me a good reason why they should all come to the UK.

Ours schools are oversubscribed, our health system is failing, at least 50% of people already here cannot afford to buy a house, nor pay greedy landlords the 'going rate'. We just cannot keep taking more and more people into an oversubscribed society.

If they are that desperate they can go to ANY EU country, can't they?

OwlCapone · 04/09/2014 17:59

I believe it's because they think the UK is a "soft touch" compared to elsewhere. I have no problem at all with genuine asylum seekers who are fleeing persecution/war and I have no problem at all with legal immigration.

Mainland UK is a small place without enough housing for our current population. Where are we meant to put large numbers of illegal immigrants and how are we meant to support them?

Waltermittythesequel · 04/09/2014 17:59

They have a utopian idea that once they get into England, they will be given a house and a job and a life

That's really sad, although probably truer than in other countries.

I wonder why the UK has gained this reputation though.

DamnBamboo · 04/09/2014 17:59

A lot of that is because of situations for which the west is responsible- for example the rise if the IS in Iraq which is a result of our invasion of Iraq 10 years ago

There are many impartial academic experts in the area who say this is simply not the case at all.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 04/09/2014 18:00

It's because they really enjoy being the target of closet racists, and France just can't compare to us on that score.

TheVermiciousKnid · 04/09/2014 18:01

Scaevola, what I meant is, that if there UK were in a location within Europe where refugees are likely to arrive first (e.g. Italy), there would be calls here for other countries within Europe (e.g. further North) to take some of them - rather than the standard response of 'they should stay where they first arrive' (which I know is what is meant to happen). Sorry, I'm not expressing it very well!

GuybrushThreepwoodMP · 04/09/2014 18:01

Erm there is plenty enough housing in this country. Privatisation means that not everyone can't live there and plenty of it is empty, but it exists alright.

GuybrushThreepwoodMP · 04/09/2014 18:03

Damn, there are many who also say it IS the case.

Irrespective of that and even if you are right, I don't think it matters. We should still be willing to help given that we are so fortunate in the first world.

ilovechristmas1 · 04/09/2014 18:04

agree with some other posters,they come here because its the most advantageous to them,i dont agree with it and would bring in tougher laws (dont ask me what)

BUT if i was living in some God awful country and there was a better life for me and my family i would to

yes im being a hypocrite but honestly thats my view

ArabellaTarantella · 04/09/2014 18:05

We should still be willing to help given that we are so fortunate in the first world.

We ARE willing to help. We have emigration policies and applications in place. If they are that desperate to get here legally why do they destroy all their paperwork and passports?

Vitalstatistix · 04/09/2014 18:06

I don't have to give you a good reason, or any reason at all. It's not me trying to get over here. I am not the keeper of other people's reasons and choices.

They come because they feel that it is the best option for them, for reasons they have and they know and which matter enough to them to risk a lot for the chance of the life they want so badly.

It is likely to be money, health services, safety, security, freedom and the feeling of a future. Or other things. Depending on the individual. I don't know. Ask them.

But I do know that I don't hate or blame the individual for a desire for a better life.

Be a bit rich, as a Briton, the ancestors of whom rampaged through the world, taking over other people's land, oppressing and enslaving them, taking everything of value, taking the land and claiming the natural resources and being a bloody good part of the reason why their countries are in such a state today, if I did.

DamnBamboo · 04/09/2014 18:07

Guy I completely agree with your second point and my earlier comments should echo that.

I don't believe from what i have read, that it's as simple as blaming the West and I don't think it's particularly helpful in either.

ArabellaTarantella · 04/09/2014 18:07

It is likely to be money, health services, safety, security, freedom and the feeling of a future

They can get all those things in any EU country if they are genuine.

TheVermiciousKnid · 04/09/2014 18:10

Arabella, it's not exactly as if other EU countries don't take in refugees! I'm sure I read somewhere that the proportion of refugees taken in is a lot higher in many other EU countries, compared to the UK.

Vitalstatistix · 04/09/2014 18:11

Yeah, Probably.

And the UK is "any EU country"

why us? you ask.

Well. Why not us?

Why are we sat here going omg omg they could go ANYWHERE, why here why here why not somewhere else arrgggghh immigrants gerrem off gerrem off they're all over me.

Many many people do migrate to countries other than the UK. It's not like we're taking in every person in the whole world who ever left the country they were born in. Or even close.

deakymom · 04/09/2014 18:13

the programs i've seen usually paint them in the light of i'm going to england to make more money then get deported home then come back and make more money

im really not sure why we should be expected to take all comers people can get as far as a friendly/safe country then apply if they wish but to continually invade is unfair if they get caught in a lorry that is the lorry fined the company fined thousands and the immigrants get away with it and they are free to try again

OwlCapone · 04/09/2014 18:17

It's because they really enjoy being the target of closet racists

Is "illegal immigrant" a race then?

OnlyLovers · 04/09/2014 18:17

Guybrush, thank you for a sane and compassionate post.

Fuck, can you imagine what would make you desperate enough to storm a ferry and set up a miserable illegal camp in a strange country? I can't, and I know that makes me very lucky indeed.

And what Vital said too. Contrary to what Cameron and his coven would have us all believe, the UK does NOT take in all the refugees/immigrants in the world.

DamnBamboo · 04/09/2014 18:18

WE don't take in the highest number in Europe either!

MerlinsUnderpants · 04/09/2014 18:18

I feel desperately for the people in this situation, it is certainly not an easy thing to attempt and they go through hideous things in the process. Things have to have been absolutely horrific at home to choose this as the best option.

But, what are the options? Allow them all into the UK and it just opens the floodgates for more. Like it or not the country is already becoming overcrowded and before anyone starts bleating on about what % of the land has been built on that is not the only factor. The ability to provide sufficient clean water and to feed the population are far more pertinent than the amount of land that has been built on. We are already playing a very dangerous game by having a current population we would be unable to feed as we are basically depending on poorer countries remaining poor in order to meet our food requirements. That is before we look at the creaking infrastructure which is unable to cope with current demand.

I think there needs to be a unified EU wide approach on dealing with Asylum Seekers, we can't just push it back as that puts an unfair burden on places like Italy and Spain. But what is fair, sustainable and most importantly humane I just have no idea.