AIBU about the Calais migrants?

[Sunny67]

Having read another story today about the Calais migrants trying to get to the UK is it unreasonable to think that there are many safe countries before you get here?
Before anyone shouts racist, I'm not talking about people fleeing war zones and ending up it camps. I'm asking why people want to cross the channel and not stop in France or a previous country?

Don't deal with the disease and the symptoms won't go away.

In France they I won't get housed, educated very well and certainly won't get welfare

And they will here also we don't have the balls to remove people who are not supposed to be here the French do

'we have a government who keeps on saying it can't afford the welfare bill as it is'

I think 'keeps on saying' is the pertinent phrase here. How much money in benefits goes unclaimed a year? I can't remember but it's a lot. And the vast majority of money spent on welfare goes on pensions. But the government would rather people stayed ignorant about that, because the people with pensions to protect are the ones who vote.

We allows he frigging EU to tell us what Hoovers were allowed so not much hope of getting any other issues sorted the only way is to pull out of the sodding thing

OnlyLovers so true
I know that no one told me that a relative was entitled to a certain benefit(disabled) I only found out through a friend.

Talk about "hoovering" while the Treaty of Rome burns, :! methinks they need to get their bloody priorities sorted in Brussells/Luxemburg....

Vital My parents were refugees, first from the Nazis and then from the Communists, which gives me a natural sympathy towards these unhappy people in Calais; but it also means that like many millions of others I can say that I did not have forebears ransacking the world in the name of the Empire, and you ought not to treat all today's British as having some sort of inherited burden of guilt.

In any case inherited guilt is rubbish. Guilt is personal. It dies with the offender.

So whatever we do about this intractable problem should not be based on being taken on a guilt-trip.

In any case inherited guilt is rubbish. Guilt is personal. It dies with the offender. Firstly it's not about guilt, it's about consequences. Secondly, we still benefit from what some of our ancestors stole (BTW, my ancestors are Polish and Russian immigrants, Scottish dirt farmers and poverty stricken types so mine weren't bathing in swan's bloody either). Those railways, museums, nice old houses, Victoria infrastructure which we still use, all built with Empire and slavery money. The British took a lot and didn't replace it. The debt crisis meant we kept taking a lot. Oil wars mean we still are.

to be fair the British built railways in other countries as well, it wasn't all bad and most of Europe were colonising. we didn't colonise all the countries who are migrating here.

I'm proud to be from the UK, we are mostly tolerant and accepting. We are a diverse society because of the vast numbers of immigrants over the years. People want to come here for a better life, who can blame them? But we can't as an island with limited resources help everyone. Perhaps if other European countries did more, the numbers would be more evenly spread and the pressure would be taken off.

Top 10 countries that asylum seekers come from:

Pakistan -- former British colony
Iran -- partially occupied by UK at various times
Sri Lanka -- former British colony
Syria -- okay that was France
Eritrea -- former British colony
Albania
Bangladesh -- former British colony
Afghanistan -- former British colony
India -- former British colony
Nigeria -- former British colony

Iraq and Sudan are also former British colonies

It's not about guilt. British colonial rule created massive divisions and disruptions in these states that were never resolved when they left, and contributed to conflict and dire poverty for decades. The West basically created these states as poor, corrupt and conflict-riven countries; continued to exploit all their natural resources and cheap labour; and did nothing when dictators slaughtered their own citizens (sometimes even helped out).

But sure, refugees have nothing to do with us.

Btw all the refugees and asylum seekers in the UK make up 0.23% of the population. Why on earth are people worried about this, that's nothing.

I have, obviously, massively simplified the terminology.

The point is that Britain ruled over many of these territories whether as colonies, mandates or what have you during which time they practiced divisive policies to maintain order and exploited the country's wealth.

Britain exploited Iranian resources and occupied parts of the country throughout the 19th century, not just in the 20th.
It administered Eritrea after taking it from the Italians.
It invaded and occupied southern Afghanistan several times in the 19th century.
etc.

Many of the roots of modern conflict in the Middle East have to do with its borders, which were established by the UK and other Western powers.

Look at any conflict that people are fleeing from and there is some element of Western involvement. It's not like these things have nothing to do with us.

The first, greatest and most vicious coloniser of them all was Spain; Britain was Johnny-come-lately. Belgium was second rank in territory colonised but very exploitative.

All of which goes to show that history does not determine who should do most now. I wish I had an easy answer: we can neither keep an open door nor say No to all.

Yanbu. I don't know why they all want to come here either, presumably they think the streets are paved with gold or something, as France and most of Europe is very safe.

we always get the colonial guilt thing but there were positive aspects of it. we have had loads of people here so we must have fulfilled our obligations over the years'.

would anything had been that different if we had not colonised? would people still want to come to GB? do we want our country to end up like the one's being fled from eventually?

The lorry drivers that pass through calais are not allowed to stop within 100 miles of the port,and if any refugees jump out on a lorry they have been told to keep driving or they will be ambushed.

While the west rages war on poor countries , the people who suffer end up here anyway. It's mad.

Nothing will change while there are so many people living in such desperate situations.

Do people really think people travel thousands of miles in unbearable conditions for chuckles?

I cannot feel anything other than empathy for people in this situation.

My husband is Syrian, his family had to flee. Fortunately they had connections in a neighbouring country and could settle there, if that hadn't been the case, we'd have done everything possible to bring them here where we could take care of them.

I assumed people want to come to the UK because many of them will speak English and there's nothing more to it than that.

I don't understand why some destroy their passports and papers. I would have thought that is unhelpful in making a case for being granted asylum.

Phaedra they destroy papers because then it is very difficult for authorities to find out where to deport them too.

poster PhaedraIsMyName

You can't be deport someone if you don't know who they really are and were they come from

poster IPityThePontipines

could not agree less if I have to flee I run to my my nearest source of help next door I would get in my car and drive to someone in the next Town this is effectively what these people are doing

If you are a African say the nearest safe country is South Africa not UK

Gaddafi was horrible no doubt but at least he policed the borders, I think the Italians make it more difficult for people to enter from Africa.

I agree about SA but tgen I suppose they may have to go through Zimbabwe.

also the UK needs to be stricter with our borders. when I went to USA we were finger printed

Alemci I guess you arrived at a large airport on a commercial flight and presented yourself to immigration.
The US has a huge problem policing its southern borders in particular. They like the UK have no idea of how many illegal immigrants are here.
We police our borders but not comprehensively. Some ports have no permanent staff. The majority of coastline is unchecked and not every lorry or car is checked. Governments don't want to pay for it.

There is a difference between illegal immigration and asylum seeking. I don't know what proportion of the Calais migrants would claim asylum whilst the rest disappear into the country to work.

It saddens me that we hear of thousands of people desperately fleeing their countries we see it in TV people dying of starvation but what really upsets some is a few trying to get here illegally

It was not that long ago we were desperate for people to come here and work yes they often did get a council flat but most were living in appalling conditions and worked very very hard. My family still thinks you can get a council house if you come here, we are rich compared to
many nations and the world is changing it's becoming multicultural people are moving around far more than ever it's not going to change and they do it to get a better life what is so wrong in that

Though obviously many on here have such great insight of living in such fear they know exactly what they would do i personally do not but I know I would do anything to
Keep my child feed and safe

And yes it is mainly young men because they are expected and will be supporting their family back home or wherever they may be