AIBU about the Calais migrants?

[Sunny67]

Having read another story today about the Calais migrants trying to get to the UK is it unreasonable to think that there are many safe countries before you get here?
Before anyone shouts racist, I'm not talking about people fleeing war zones and ending up it camps. I'm asking why people want to cross the channel and not stop in France or a previous country?

Because we are a soft touch? That seems to be the running consensus with these illegal immigrants.

Whoever said we have plenty of space, are you joking? We are running at full capacity as it is. The last thing we need is more immigration.

The conservatives need to clamp down on Immigration and use strong handed tactics to keep these people out.

perhaps something needs to be done about the state of the infrastructure in the UK then? We need to be spending more on the NHS, schools etc and whether the 'extra' space is used by somebody who is born here or not is irrelevant.

I don't see anybody telling people to stop having children, which fill up schools and use the health care system! an adult is more use than a child for supporting the ageing population short term.

Space, infrastructure, all means nothing if we don't have enough water. We have only built on 2.27% of the UK, we could double the amount of built up land in the UK and still only cover a fraction of the built up space. But we already have droughts. We'd cover less than 5% of the land if we doubled our build space. Doubling our population would ensure diseases like cholera due to poor sanitation would kill off the old, the very young and the sick very quickly though. Overpopulation has fuck all to do with space, water and food are the real considerations. Who was it that said future wars in the ME will be fought over water and not oil? It is relevant for all of us.

One way of another Mother Nature will put us right, whether humanity survives the correction is another matter.

I will always remember from one of my evolution lectures being told that a species success depends on it's longevity. Humanity, despite all it's advances has been a disaster, we'll be nothing but a speck on the arsehole of the Earth.

there is no mass exodus to the UK, i don't think we need to worry about the water supply quite yet!

handcream, you have no idea what fleeing means. It means going somewhere you think you might be safe and able to build a luge. Phase so making stupid symptoms just to justify your horrible narrow-mined and prejudiced view of the world.

is it unreasonable to think that there are many safe countries before you get here?

Not at all.

And the vast majority seek asylum in those countries.

2013 figures or asylum applications

Germany 109,600
United States of America 84,400
South Africa 70,000
France 60,200
Sweden 54,300
UK 23,507

www.unhcr.org.uk/about-us/the-uk-and-asylum.html

for more complete data 2009 - 13 of the number of people who have been granted status as refugee or asylum.

UK has about 150 000, France 200 000 and Germany 600 000. Iran, Kenya and Pakistan have far higher numbers, reflecting their geographical position to areas of conflict.

data.worldbank.org/indicator/SM.POP.REFG

SuperwifeANDmum, what makes you think we're running out of space? Are you just believing what you read in whatever newspaper you read to confirm your personal anti-immigration opinion?

I can't understand why so many of you think this shouldn't be your problem. You think you have a right to be in a nice rich country just because you were born in one and these people weren't.

You DIDN'T ACHIEVE your birth place. You were just lucky. You could have been one of these people if it weren't for link. You don't obtain human rights by luck. We are all equal.

I've got nothing but sympathy for the poor buggers.

But for a stroke of fate it could be us lot running the other way, desperate to get out of Dover.

Most of the migrants that were interviewed were saying they made for the UK because they spoke English. Completely understandable.

Crikey bensam you have no idea how grim it is for most people in the world. I've only travelled to India and China and despite being fairly stable countries they still have to put with a hell of a lot more shit than we do. I can only imagine how desperate people from Iraq / Syria / Somalia must be.

And what guybrush said.

I watched something the other week that really clarified things for me. The reporter person was in France looking at all of these men trying to get to the UK. One of them who looked to be in his late 20s later was successful and made it into the UK. The reported then managed to catch up with him here.

Turns out the 'man' was in fact a 16 year old boy who had made it from Iraq to the UK on his own. He was 15 when he left. His parents had been murdered in front of him (although he was hiding) because they had collaborated with the British/Americans. The last thing his dad had said to him was to get to Britain, that he'd be protected there. So he was doing what his dad had told him.

He'd spend several months in France, living rough, half starving and hadn't had a bath since leaving Iraq. Within 48 hours of arriving in the UK he was picked up by a stranger who realised something was seriously amiss, taken into his home, fed, washed, clothed, given a bed to sleep in and the following day taken to a police station and handed over. The police had been really kind to him and treated this traumatised child with compassion.

His dad was right to send him to the UK and if I were in the same horrific situation I'd want the same for my son too. :(

It means going somewhere you think you might be safe and able to build a luge

But other EU countries are safe too are they not? We are all supposed to be a level playing field? All one large homogenous land mass, sharing same ideals and so forth.

There is no reason why anyone should expect any more state help or compassion from the locals than anywhere else in the EU.

I wonder if the same bun fight for school places is going on in the other EU countries, like it is here, roads congested, NHS in crisis and so on?

Interesting thread. I have no idea what the answer is, what I suspect will happen is there will be a tipping point and suddenly our border control will tighten up and getting onto this island will be a hell of a lot more difficult.

I suspect that the right wing march is well underway and at some point a party such as UKIP will get into power and all hell is going to break loose.

No, not all EU countries are equally safe. I actually think British people should be proud that they are known the world over for being much more tolerant, less racist, more generous than some of their fellow Europeans.

There is an incredible amount of racism and violence against foreigners in France and Italy. Look how well the National Front recently did in France, 25%.

'safe' does not just mean people aren't shooting at you or bombing your village. It means having a safe place to sleep, something to eat, not being beat up by the cops or locals. Plenty of places in Europe aren't safe for migrants, especially trafficked women and children who are forced into prostitution or forced labour.

Obviously the UK can't take everyone in and needs a strategy to deal with migration. But I think it's sad that so many people see their desirability as a negative. Would you rather be a country everyone is trying to get out of?

i do hope the people who are supporting these illegal immigrants ar going to support them when they arrive.
bed an board.
at a time when the dear government is slashing benefits for the most vulnerable.
we can not take on more.

I don't think people travelling from France to the UK should be then able to claim asylum (unless it is the French authorities they are fleeing from). I think people should claim asylum in the first safe country they reach.

I would however support a scheme whereby the UK takes a fair share of those granted asylum in Europe.

Some do claim asylum in France. Why should France or anyone else take the responsibility simply because it's geographically nearer? That's ludicrous.
Many don't claim asylum in France because while they are waiting for asylum, they are not allowed to work and earn and pay taxes. The French state would rather leave them on the streets.

The countries where asylum seekers arrive should take initial responsibility exactly because they are geographically nearer. They should then be supported with the secondary responsibility of rehoming those granted refugee status.

The current system where people are left destitute to trail their way across Europe then risk their lives trying to cross the Channel isn't exactly a kindness, is it?

thereturn
i do hope the people who are supporting these illegal immigrants ar going to support them when they arrive.
bed an board.

Yep - still can't get rid of him 17 years later what with being married an' all.

DH came over here as an asylum seeker and was granted full refugee status. Do you understand what that means for someone? It means that they are stateless - they don't belong anywhere. You don't have a passport (only a home office travel document) you can't travel to your home country so you won't see you family for years, if ever. DH's father died whilst he was a refugee here so he never got to say goodbye nor could he travel back for the funeral because it was too dangerous and would have immediately lost him his refugee status.

In some ways he is one of the lucky ones because his country has stabilised enough over the last few years (returned to semi civilian government after a civil war triggered by a military coup) that it is now safe for him to travel there as a British citizen. But he didn't see his family at all for more than 10 years.

I can understand why these individuals may be attempting to enter the UK from France but asylum is meant to mean seeking refuge in the first safe country and France is safe. In theory, asylum is sought to find a place of safety, not the best possible place for the best quality of life. The first step is meant to be not in fear of life. Then again, we are talking about human beings here. So, I can see all viewpoints.

French benefits are capped and shite compared to the UK.
Not the case. In fact Britain has one of the poorest benefit rates in the E.U.

Out of pure interest, I'd be curious if anyone has any stats on benefit rates in the EU. I worked with someone who is German and said that benefits there are approx equal to UK.

LadyGnome nice to hear a happy story.

but that is one story.

who is going to fund the care all these people will need?

As I understand it, French benefits, similar to German benefits, are related to what you have put in to the system. So unemployment benefit can be enormous compared to the UK (up to 5000 euros per month, I understand!), but non-contributory benefits aren't good. Because our system is based on need, and pretty much ignores whether you have paid anything in, it is attractive to people who don't have a working history in this country. This is why our govt keeps complaining about benefit tourism, while other states are more relaxed....

'Because we are a soft touch? That seems to be the running consensus with these illegal immigrants.'

Really, SuperMum? 'these illegal immigrants' all agree that the UK is a soft touch? How about those coming in fear of their lives? How about those coming who want to work and make a better life?

Please can you explain how you know the UK is at 'full capacity'?