AIBU about the Calais migrants?

[Sunny67]

Having read another story today about the Calais migrants trying to get to the UK is it unreasonable to think that there are many safe countries before you get here?
Before anyone shouts racist, I'm not talking about people fleeing war zones and ending up it camps. I'm asking why people want to cross the channel and not stop in France or a previous country?

I agree OP but this won't end well.

because they speak English? Because they have family here, because our justice system is seen as fairer, because there is more work available, lots of reasons really

It is because our successive governments are bloody wimps, and afraid of being seen as racist. The situation is only going to get worse and worse until word spreads that the UK is Closed.

our benefits are better here.
We have a more generous welfare state than pretty much anywhere else in Europe, even with the Tories in control!

Well, the idea is that fleeing refugees seek asylum in the first safe country they reach.

So yes, under international law their case should be considered in the country where they enter EU.

The other solution would be to look to history and to retake Calais.

Having said that OP, I can't say I blame them for trying.

Surprised all were male...

I heard the a French official on radio 4 this afternoon say that they are offered accommodation and benefits in France but turn it down because they want to come to the UK.

are the 'benefits' better here for non EU citizens ...I suspect not - for EU citizens they are pretty similar in most EU countries ...there is a lot of mythology around benefits

French benefits are capped and shite compared to the UK.

That's not my understanding gordy - the UK is considered to be very generous and I remember seeing figures (not daily mail) showing a country by country comparison in the EU with the UK ranking right near the top. Will have to have a think where.

OP, as a nation we are also signficantly less racist and significantly more tolerance of other cultures than many other EU countries which would clearly appeal

250 people stormed a ferry. That sounds like pure desperation to me.

I mean - what would happen? Oh, these people are on the ferry now, let's set sail? No, the ferry would simply stay in the port. It's not like it would take them to the uk, is it? They would simply have stormed the boat and be stuck on it, in Calais.

So to me it just reads like people at their wits end, desperate, and powerless.

I can never and will never blame individual people for trying to get to a place where they believe they will have a better life. If the situation were reversed, would I sit, jobless, hungry, poor or perhaps even starving or ill maybe , with my children, or just desperate for any one of countless reasons and say well, it's really not the done thing to try to go to another country, so I will continue to suffer my lot here because it is important to me to be fair to those people, no matter what the price for me.

Of course I wouldn't and I bet nobody else in the UK would either. Nor am I likely to choose a country where I do not speak the language if I have an other option of a country where I do.

So it is down to the government to set and enforce rules and manage immigration for the benefit of the people here and to benefit the people here by bringing in those who have skills we need or want while also not forgetting our humanity and helping those who genuinely need help.

but aren't most of these people non EU ? So the benefits issue is not relevant

You know, if the UK were in a location where it's the bordering 'troubled' countries and therefore usually the first country refugees arrive in, there would be an outcry here about how unfair it is and how other, further away countries, should take refugees as well ...

Poor, desperate people. :(

even eu migrants can only get contributions based benefits so its not that

would I sit, jobless, hungry, poor or perhaps even starving or ill maybe , with my children

Nearly all of them are men, they don't have children with them, nor do they have women with them. They are not starving, they are fed by French charities. They are entitled to register in France and get access to healthcare if they are ill.

Next?

we're more likely to accept asylum seekers and let them stay here and benefits aren't paid initially but when they're granted asylum they're entitled to financial assistance which is better than elsewhere,
ie.France.

I would assume that they have ties to the UK - family, friends etc and that they believe they have a better chance of claiming asylum in England, rather than in France.

I think - though it's mostly conjecture - that the courts in this country are more willing to accept human rights' arguments for the right to stay in England (i.e. if they can show some kind of right to family life by having children here) whereas other countries' courts may not be so sympathetic and would most likely give them short shrift.

Yes gordy probably.
I was just commenting that benefits for EU citizens (I believe) are more generous than elsewhere in Europe.

I don't blame these men for trying... not one bit.

maybe because uk wont necessarily treat them as shit as france will?

Can someone explain how these people are allowed to set up camps in Calais? Why are they not deported/ arrested for setting up camps? I can understand why they do it but not how they are able to

They cannot be deported by ANY country Southern because they destroy their passports and all paperwork pertaining to their personal details and home country. They play the system beautifully.

I thought that too though I will fully admit I am woefully ignorant as to what your (UK) figures/benefits are.

Are non-EU members entitled to a lot more in the UK than say in France?

It could be because they have relatives there.

But 250+ storming a boat all because they happen to have relatives in the UK? Seems a bit of a shaky reason!

No-one knows where they have come from - only what they say. They will not admit their real names nor their country of origin. So they can't be sent back.

I've spent time with migrant communities in Calais. They have a utopian idea that once they get into England, they will be given a house and a job and a life. I wish that was true actually. Of course it isn't but the reason they can't stay in France is a combination of a culture of racism and the legislation which states that they are not allowed to work while they wait to claim asylum. Or is marginally easier here and in Germany. Frankly the best thing that could happen would be that the rest of the world take collective responsibility for saving these people- every one of us.
Most of the people there are basically children- 16-18 year olds who have fled judgement, disenfranchisement, imprisonment, violence and torture.
A lot of that is because of situations for which the west is responsible- for example the rise if the IS in Iraq which is a result of our invasion of Iraq 10 years ago (without establishing a proper social and political infrastructure), which in itself is a result or the fact that he west funded Saddams regime back during the Iranian revolution.

Please try and remember that these people are desperate dying. Many of them are men and because they are trying to support families back in their home country. Many men typically end up on the streets where women find that they have something else to sell to stay alive.
They have experienced horrors that you will never even begin to think about because you were lucky enough to be born here. And that's all it was- luck. You didn't achieve your nationality and it shouldn't give you more rights than anyone else. You are just lucky.
Next time you think about having a go at immigration just please ask yourself how it has directly affected your life? How many jobs or houses you you have lost because of it? And if there are any, then why you think you had more right to them in the first place.
I know I sound preachy and I make no apologies for that.