one child in state school one at private school...AIBU?

[NoonarAgain]

dd1 is at a small independent girls school (secondary). she had friendship problems in year 5 and 6 and was keen to make a fresh start rather than go with her class mates to the excellent local comprehensive. if we did not think that dd1 was especially suited to this school, by virtue of her personality and situation, then we would never have chosen this particular school, as we prefer the idea of co-ed state education.

dd1 is happy at the school, but tbh we have a few philosophical objections to her being there and sometimes wonder if we made the right choice.

now dd 2 is soon to start secondary and is very keen to go to the 'good with outstanding features' (very local )comp. she is a tomboy and does not wish to go to a single sex school or leave her friends. the comp is in a fairly affluent area, without the problems faced by inner city schools. so in all honesty, both schools offer a fairly privileged educational environment, in my view.

the problem is, many people that I chat to seem to think that it is unfair to send one child to private school. this, to me, is based on the assumption that one school is inferior- a view that I simply do not hold.

someone even suggested that I find an entirely different co-ed private school, when there is a fantastic state school on our doorstep, just so they can 'both go private'. that just seems bonkers to me!

AIBU to send dd2 to the comp or should I 'force' her to go to the private school for fear being perceived as unfair? WWYD?

Gennz and dolcelatte, of all the thoughtful heartfelt posts that have been written ( wow!) you have both written things that really resonate.

My friends would probably say that I'm quite 'right on' and very principled. Most are shocked that dd1 is at a private school- and tbh I am too. I have been quite disconcerted about some if the attitudes to money that some if dd1's friends have. There seem to be few with the same values that dh and I have and I've not met a single parent that I have really clicked with.

Dd1 feels that she is in a bit of a 'bubble'- as dolce latte describes- and that it's not like the real world. Dd1 is doing well and I'm not rushing to move her, but this environment seems like even more of a mismatch for dd2.

I have also been feeling disillusioned with some of the copying off the board style teaching at the Indi. Sure, they get the results, but I'm not at all convinced that it's due to superior teaching. It's all about controlling the school environment, IMO.

Also, I should say that dd2 is quirky, highly individual, really really kind, not one to follow the crowd. Ever! Surely she is not going to end up as a rebellious oik just because if going to comp. (Or is it too early to tell how she will respond to adolescence??)

Ps Thanks again to everyone who has shared their interesting views and experiences. The verdict seems to be more mixed today!

ARe there other good private schools you could consider for her? I have several friends who were in this situation as children and it did lead to resentment in adulthood. I think it's a bit different if one child has a very specific need that cannot or was not being met by the available states schooling but I would really avoid treating them differently if at all possible.

My dc went to mediocre local comp, my dss2 went to an independent all boys school. Dss2 went to a comp which began life as a direct grant school then changed. My dsd went to a mixed grammar school.
All five went to decent unis, graduated with good degrees and have decent careers. The one who is resentful is dss1 who feels strongly that he should have been moved when his school became a comp even though he strongly resisted the idea at 14.
My two dc had both passed the entrance exams for direct grammar schools, they didn't want to go and my dh was desperately ill so I gave in for a quiet life.(Dh died in dd's first year at secondary). With hindsight I should have insisted. They now think this too although they understand my decision.
Op if at all possible send dd2 to the indy with her sister. You will have no regrets or incriminations and they can both go state at 16+.

Hi Noonar,

I had a similar situation - me and my older siblings went to very good state schools and youngest went private. We didn't have (and still don't) have any resentment, especially when the opportunities provided are so excellent and the teaching suited youngest much more than it would have done us.
The only thing we have all noticed a bit is that as youngest was surrounded a lot more with peers from extremely affluent backgrounds there was a slight 'attitude' as they do not see money in the same way (as in always having latest gadgets / spending lots of money on outings etc) whereas we were all happy just playing in the park and having a picnic iyswim?
For dd2 it might be worth you keeping back a little something so that, when the inevitable overseas trips or experiences are offered to dd1 (generally the school holidays aren't camping in Swanage!) you can pay for something similar for dd2 (and maybe a friend as obviously dd1 will go with her school friends)?
Different school settings work best for different types and clearly you are choosing the best options for your children - it shouldn't matter what other people are saying as long as both dd's are happy, confident and getting the most from their schools

At various times I have had one child at state and one at a private school. I don't think private schools are necessarily better or that it is unfair to allocate more money to one child than the other. I think you allocate according to need.

Send DD2 to the comp rather than forcing her into a private school where she will be unhappy.

I do think a lot of people think all private schools are like the elite private schools and don't realise there are plenty of "bog-standard" indys out there whose distinction from local state schools is all about a more uniform intake of pupils and smaller size. Which can be exactly what some children need, but only some! Things like 80% of judges coming from private schools is not the same thing as all private schools giving their children an advatage in becoming a judge - 14% of judges went to just 5 independent schools. They don't all produce the elite, just a few of them.

YANBU to send your children to the schools they are best suited to, however those schools are funded. However, I think there are two things you need to keep an eye on - It is a lot of money, and that could come back to bite you if at a later date dd2 has problems that she needs to blame on something, it's a very visible difference that lots of people might bring to her attention when she is feeling vulnerable. But giving her a lump sum equivalent to the school fees sounds like a terrible idea. Also, the sorts of opportunities the schools offer may be different and support might be needed to help ensure they both get what they need here (and I don't just mean trips and clubs, but also things like finding a group with the same interests, a teacher who is particularly good at something they love and has the time/will to mentor them a little etc.). Basically you need to keep a continual eye on what they both need individually and not see it as a school choice and that's it, but it sounds like you think about that anyway.

Noonar do you think your DD2 understands that in a school with 450 pupils in each year group she may only have one child she knows from her primary school?

Boom is right which is why for us we went for very selective top private schools . I think my daughter's old school was top of the country of all schools in all sectors this year as it has often been in the past. It is usually in the top 5. It is quite hard to fail at schools like that.

I don't know if anyone watched 21UP (2 episodes recently on BBC - see iplayer - worth watching) but there was a girl from her old school on there and the programme is quite illustrative of how how you start in terms of school and other factors can have an impact on your future life and also though how children's personalities determine how they turn out - the aspergers boy who seems so keen to suggest he is "normal" although clearly he is different, the shy and less shy children etc).

Greengrow I really enjoyed 21 Up. I also watched all the original 7 Up series too which I actually studied on my Sociology degree course. Fascinating viewing.

My parents did this.

I went to an independent senior school - I was naturally academic and it suited me to a tee. But when my brother's turn came, he begged and pleaded to go to the local comp. He was very sensitive and easily disheartened, and not as academic. Everyone worried that he'd be pushed to hard at an independent school, and might struggle with being towards the bottom end of the class.

He never resented the money being spent on me as he'd had the same opportunity and it had been his strong preference not to go.

But whilst it was fine at the time, our lives have taken such different paths that I do wonder if it was the right thing to do. I got As at GSCE and A level, went to a top uni, have a very good job and earn lots. His results were not as good, he struggled with and repeatedly dropped out of uni, was unemployed for most of his 20s and live with DM and DF.

Obviously this might be attributable to out different abilities/maturity - but when he finally finished uni, he got a 1st (which I didn't). He's clearly massively bright - although he hid that light under a bushel as a teen - and I do wonder how his life might have panned out at a better school.

If we could do it again, I would send him to the IS for a year, and let him know that he could drop out after that if he wanted.

(Yes I always have enjoyed those series.They obviously pick children even back in the 1960s who differ from each other to make it more interesting but try to leave it to the child and the teenager and adult to speak rather than force them into a view. I think most participants feel only part of who and what they are is shown but even so it makes fascinating viewing and much food for thought. Also whatever their background the ones who as children speak quickly with complex thoughts who are very bright tend to remain so which shows that the essence with which you're born does determine how you turn out. I have certainly found with 5 children they are as much born as made - I would put it at 50/50 and parents should not beat themselves up so much about whether they are doing right by their child)

Children have different needs at different times. Being fair doesn't mean being given identical things at identical times.

This in spades.

Treat each of your individual children as individuals, and provide according to their needs. Forcing one into the mould of the other just doesn't seem fair at all.

I'm not sure your second child needs 'compensating' if you're giving both of them the best education as is appropriate for them.

Noonar like you I've always sworn I'd never send my kids to private schools - I have friends who've gone to them and I didn't see that they did any better career wise than me or my school friends, and although they are nice people, there are definitely "bubble" elements there for most of them - certain expectations of family money etc. Also - with the privately educated girls - (disclaimer, massive generalisation ahead) I've definitely noticed there's seems to be more value placed on appearance, body image etc - more so than even my single sex school cohort.

That said, as I mentioned before, DH and I have been very lucky to benefit from excellent non-private options: faith & state schools, and we'd probably go down this track for our kids. (DH's school was/is so good that most people would choose it over a private alternative.) (We are both lawyers so this quite traditional education suited us - more creative kids might benefit from a different education.) So my principles haven't really been challenged in any way! If my only option was a poor or average state school, my principles would be out the window in a heartbeat & I'd be scraping together the money for private school fees, absolutely.

Noonar, re the tomboy thing. My dd went to a top girls' (state but elite) secondary despite telling me she wanted a mixed school and all her friends were boys. Big mistake- awful subtle bullying, and she ended up missing most of year 10 as we tried to get her into a mixed comp. DS went to private boys' school from y9 as his grandad offered to pay. He has mild Aspergers and really appreciated the studious environment. He's now doing maths at Oxford. DS ended up doing NVQ makeup and is now doing an art foundation course. It took years 11 to 13 to build up her confidence again after the bullying. I'm a uni lecturer in education studies, so almost knew too much about schools to calm down and make the right decisions. I think she wanted the mixed comp all along. Bottom line is I tried to make the right decision with the money and choices I had available to me at the time for both kids; that's all you can do really.

Children have different needs at different times. Being fair doesn't mean being given identical things at identical times.

Exactly. You have to make the decision based on what is (or appears) best for them at the time. From what you've said, the comp is the best option for your younger daughter. The money's a bit beside the point. Who knows what the future will bring? As they go through their teens and early 20s they'll both have different emerging needs for time, emotional support, money and so on, and you'll respond as best you can. So long as you do the best for each of them, you have nothing to reproach yourself with.

I fail to see how money comes into it.

DD1 is much happier and settled at a private girls school.

DD2 feels she would be happier at the local comprehensive - the one with the excellent reputation.

They're both very good schools, each suiting the individual needs of your daughters. Yes, you're having to pay for one. You're paying because it is better for your daughters well being if you do. Your youngest daughter has made up her own mind about which school she would rather attend. The decision hasn't been forced on her at all.

I don't understand this need people have to balance the financial scales equally between children. Some children cost more, some less. My parents just handed my youngest sister a cheque for £5k for her 21st birthday. They also paid her rent while she was at uni for the last 3 years (£400 p/m) and she is now back living with them rent free for as long as she would like. Neither I or my eldest sister received any of that and we don't begrudge her a penny of it. It's circumstantial, at the end of the day.

If I called my parents now to say that I was in trouble and needed £5k, they'd have a momentary stumble before rallying to get the money. And I know I'd have that money by tomorrow morning. It's not a case of favourites. The support is there if we need it. They are able to give my little sister more than they could with us because she's their last and they don't have another 2 children at home to support. They are also earning considerably more than they were 10+ years ago. And we all understand that. None of us give a hoot. We're happy and we're supported. That's what matters.

OP, don't pay it any mind. Just do what is best for your family

Boom, green grow...absolutely agree that people don't distinguish between the elite and the bog standard indies.

Span a very, very interesting post. Lots that resonated in that post..l am a primary school teacher, actually, so I have an informed view on some of the poor quality teaching in lower KS3. I know what you mean about knowing too much! ( however, I am ignorant on many aspects of secondary education). How sad for your dd :( my dd2 is very much out if the main girlie cliques and takes refuge with the boys. I feel that the all girls school could really go either way for her. It is a concern.

Morning, vino, thanks. And what if you felt that her GCSE grades might end up being very marginally lower ? Would that be a deal breaker, or could that option still be deemed 'best for her'?

Having twins, I am a stickler for equality.

That however, doesn't mean always doing exactly the same.

If you're certain that the quality of education will be equivalent, then I can't see any reason to not do as you're proposing.

However, when you take a decision like this you have to be prepared for either child to resent it later or for competition to arise; look at the way some posters have been just dying to tell you how they did 'better' than their privately educated sibling .

Then all you can do is be honest and say you made the best choice you could...

We tell our girls that fair is 'the right thing, for the right person, at the right time.'

I agree with that.

And also think DD2 should be allowed pick her school, especially as it sounds she had the choice of two good schools.
Around here, the children are about 12/13 going into secondary school. But generally while the parents influence the school choice, the child gets a say in it too.

I always remember a mate of mine trying to explain why his brother went private and he didnt. He ended up quite bitter about it, as the brother happened to do much better generally in life/ job etc.

I wouldn't do it, but if it works so,well, and you can keep the kids informed as to why,then why not.

On the point about private girls schools and looks, we found our girls' schools very nicely academic. Some of the girls were into fasion and some weren't. They didn't feel pressure. Mind spent their teens covered in mud and worse on horses actually.

Also in terms of job prospects in most higher paid careers except football if you dress well, speak well and aren't fat that helps sometimes as much as your GCSE results so I am not sure it is a bad thing if private school girls know how to dress to get what they want in life.

This is difficult, because as others have said fair isn't always equal.

And in some ways, what you're worrying about is that dd2 will turn round and say "it wasn't fair" in the future. And she might, or she might not, and I don't think that you can tell simply because she says she doesn't want to at present whether or not that will happen.

Probalem with dd2 picking her school is actually a 10yo will almost certainly go for "my friends" or something simple. My very responsible and mature dd1's favourite school was because "it didn't wear a tie" at 10yo.

My df failed the 11+, but was head and shoulders above everyone else at the secondary modern, and was given the chance to transfer at 13+, 14+ and 16+. He refused. However one time I was talking to him and he said it was a big mistake on his part. He wished his parents or a teacher had told him he should do it, rather than giving him the option.

And also when you are comparing your dc you will be slightly looking at relative. Just because it's not as good a match for dd2, doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad match. It may feel it because it suited dd1 so well.
I suppose I'm seeing me in some ways. One time my parents commented I was the "most normal" of their children. They were talking about socially. My dsis and db struggled, so they saw me as flying socially. Actually I found it very hard and it was something I had to work at. I could see them saying "oh DeWee didn't need the extra encouragement/smaller classes because she was fine socially". However it was that situation where I was fine because I was paddling so hard underneath to keep going, so putting me into a more difficult situation, I might have appeared fine, but would have had to work much harder.

But DeWee, don't you think it was an advantage to learn to socialise with people from different social groups? You worked at it and you succeeded, whereas your siblings struggled because they had only been exposed to a narrow social group.

All children need to learn skills to fit in, cope, and thrive/survive in school and, whatever school, these skills will be with you for life.