to ask where indyref Part 5 is?

[grovel]

Well?

Yes one unfortunate side effect of this referendum debate is that it has split scotland in 2. I expect the result to be very close, no more than 55/45, likely closer to 50/50.

People have become so passionate that I can see resentment bubbling over between people who know others who voted the other way.

I don't really know the answer to this. I think the yes campaign has come so far in uniting a diverse range of people and building networks that I dot think they will go home as be quietin the event of a no vote. I think there will be another referendum in 10 years.

If it's yes then maybe some no campaigners will be so dismayed they will emigrate. I'm sure most of the MPs will.

To build a good constitution we are going to have to work together. I hope this willbe possible.

I'd quite happily get rid of notes and coins altogether but thats a different debate.

No Freddie I'm not a lawyer. Wash your mouth out!

And yes Weatherall, if it's a No vote I'm sure there will be further referendums until you finally get a Yes.

Regarding the curriculum for excellence I think it has it's strengths and weaknesses.

We've had a good experience of it in primary. In high school I think it's a good idea to have pupils sitting exams in different years to suit their ability but I'm not happy with the reduced number of subjects.

I chose not to move to England a few years ago when I was offered a better job there precisely because of the education system.

I can't think of any non Scandinavian education system I'd rather have than Scotland's.

I've not seen any evidence of having to stick to Scottish topics.

*weatherall you really are an awful person. Will you actually say or do anything for your "cause"? Why won't you answer my question on the Scottish Parliament failing to tackle corruption in City of Edinburgh Council, and link me to a post by supposed doppelganger?

Oh Chelsy, when you mislead people try to say things that aren't so easy to disprove. You said 1 in 5 Scots voted Tory in the 2010 general election. 412,000 voted Tory, which was 9% of the 3.94 million electorate.

Approximately 1 in 5 Scottish voters did vote Conservative at the last GE. It is a fact. Do you think those 412,000 people are not worthy of representation, or even worth counting? From the way some people go on, you would think there were no Conservative voters in Scotland at all. I had no idea it was so many myself until I looked it up.

So you overestimated by over 100%. When you blatantly lie like this why should anyone take notice of anything you say?

Would that be doublespeak from Orwell's "1984", or the Scottish version of Pravda?

at more referendums ad infinitim

but surely we would need to rephrase the question? otherwise I bloody will emigrate

I've found the Scottish education system to be a bit unambitious and unmotivational - have known of students basically being told to know their place and stay in it. There are problems with important subjects being unavailable at Higher. There are too many exams, and too much emphasis on learning learned responses, rather than gaining knowledge of the subject. It ranks quite low down that European comparative league, in both maths and science and English (and no Itsallgoingtobefine I can't find a link, I have looked, but perhaps someone else has it).

Judging by the shocking number of Scots who can't spell and struggle with literacy on independence debates on Facebook, it isn't very satisfactory.

Maybe read my full post Chelsy rather than pulling the bits to suit your view.

I've answered you on ecc before.

You know, on the thread where you called yes voters 'ignorant'.

Sadly, Health and Wellbeing is 2hours 55 minutes and includes PSE (in fact, is PSE by another name) but does not include HE or PE. I know a huge amount about it because I work at the school attended by both my DC.

As for, if you don't like it, move - isn't that a bit anti any kind of debate? I am a part of the educational establishment. I mark for SQA. I work centrally to support teachers. I am telling you, from my professional experience (25 years teaching, 18 in Scotland) that the system in place is ideologically unsound. It attempts to transfer primary school into High School and does so badly: ill thought out project work, poor planning and low expectations. The education system has been rewritten to suit the needs of the least able and most poorly parented. However, it does not provide challenge until S4 and, even then, many schools are now offering 6/7 subjects instead of the previous 8/9.

Did you know that Brian Boyd, one of the architects of the curriculum, wanted it called "The Curriculum for Fun"? I am all for interesting, vibrant lessons but teaching 6 poems from one Scottish poet (from a list but you only do 1) is reductive and narrow minded. Pupils used to study FiL, Shakespeare, major writers from around the world, from Scotland, from everywhere. No longer.

I am so concerned that some people are happy with the new curriculum. It shows just how little parents understand what is being done to their children. Whatever you think of the SNP, or the referendum, you need, as parents, to be very concerned about what is being done to your children in the name of progress.

I hope your kids do well out of it. Mine will, but then I am a teacher and I will make damn sure they do. But those who do not have determined and motivated parents are not being supported by the system. It is no longer about ambition and looking outward, it is about low aspirations and looking inwards.

I'm pretty sure I quoted your full post weatherall.

Just remind me of your response on the corruption at City of Edinburgh Council and the Scottish Parliament's failure to respond to a petition for a public enquiry or even to do any investigation of its own back again will you?

You do realise that its not a very convincing start to this supposedly fairer and more equal society, when the Parliament can't even resolve local issues.

I never used the word "ignorant". I made the point that patronising those who might be more intelligent yourself is unlikely to work.

chelsy, I'll answer for weather all if you like, since you find us interchangeable

I agree with you on the failings of CEC and holyrood. But I'm not voting for them!

and i don't think there was a particular post. Lady Cordelia had just gone when you started posting today. She was making a joke. That is all.

Actually, on reflection, I suppose there is a bit of a discrepancy in claiming that 1 in 5 people in Scotland vote Tory, when actually about 15-17% of voters generally vote Tory, and a great deal of people don't vote at all. How the non-voters would vote we can't really say, but it is a bit of a squeeze to say that 1 in 5 people in Scotland is a Tory voter, based on the actual numbers.

I'm sure that is an apt description of the Scottish education system Rose and you can see its benefits by its failure to produce enquiring minds. Enquiring minds tend to challenge totalitarian systems. You can see some splendid examples on this and related threads.

I thought it was 17.8% of those who voted at the last General Election? I don't think its objectionable or particularly inaccurate to round that down to 1 in 5.

Oh no Deeedee I'm not taken in by that at all. Weatherall was quite serious when she mistook someone at work for posting under another name. She has shown an almost obsessive interest in usernames consistently throughout all threads.

FiL is obviously film. I am not sure what they would learn from studying my FiL. Actually, they would have seen Scottish education at its finest. A poor boy from the wrong end of Dundee, child of a waitress and blacksmith, getting to St Andrews and becoming an engineer, building roads across Africa. Sadly, not on the card given the levels of Maths being taught nowadays.

And, whoever says I don't know the curriculum - schools can teach "Health and Wellbeing" by ticking boxes in other subjects (e.g. HE etc) but my school has chosen to teach it every morning for 35 minutes. Madness? Agreed!

It ranks quite low down that European comparative league, in both maths and science and English (and no Itsallgoingtobefine I can't find a link, I have looked, but perhaps someone else has it).

Do you mean the PISA rankings? As far as I know the UK/Scotland are pretty similarly (and low) ranked.

It was almost 17% in 2010. I don't think it's objectionable to round that number up to 1 in 5, but it obscures the fact that this was a comparatively high result for Scottish Conservatives, it was 14%, for example, in 2011. And of course it excludes all the non-voters. So it's fair to say that about 15-16% of voters in Scotland return a Tory vote, but based on a 50 to 60% turn out, that is quite some way away from 1 in 5 Scots.

I don't believe that's simply because we instinctively object to the Tory policies or are any more socialist/lefty/right on. I think we also have a collective memory which hates the Tory Party as an entity.

well i certainly took it as a joke.

but as you were!

Anyone watched the robin mcapline video yet or looked at the common weal? I've only bloody linked to the things a dozen times or so now. are you still all too busy trying to jitter the markets?

Chelsy- quotes from you describing yes voters on previous threads-

• "thick and thuggish"

• "twats"

• "stupid"

• "lunatics"

• "who in their right mind"

I've never called you names but if you cant take criticism then don't behave in such a hostile way on these threads.

Well to be fair, in the last General Election, in 2010, the Conservatives polled 412,855 votes which gained them 1 seat, and the SNP 491,386 which gained them 6 seats.

So I find talk of lack of fair representation at Westminster by independence supporters a bit unrealistic.

It wasn't that exceptional a result for the Conservatives in Scotland at a GE, as it was only a 0.9% swing.

For comparison, the Lib Dems polled 465,471 and won 11 seats, and Labour 1,035,528 and 41 seats.

"I think we also have a collective memory which hates the Tory Party as an entity."

Debatably, but that wouldn't have happened if not for the result of Tory Party policies. I don't think you can detach the cultural memory of Thatcherism from the impact of Thatcher's actual policies, so it's a bit of a dodge to 'blame' hostility to Conservative politics in Scotland on the legacy of Thatcherism.

weatherall any chance you could grow up and stop calling people names? Its a bit tiresome.

By the way, whats your thoughts on the Scottish Parliament's failure to deal with the incompetence and corruption at CofE Council, right on its doorstep?

Taken in the context of GE and HR elections, 17% was a strong result. Looking at both sets of elections, about 15/16% is more representative, and there's a bit of a gap between that and a solid '1 in 5' voters. And then there's the fact that turnout is only about 50/60%. When you look at it that way, it's hard to claim that '1 in 5' people in Scotland are vote Tory.