to ask where indyref Part 5 is?

[grovel]

Well?

Chelsy- I'm nasty? I'm not the one who has called people 'twats' 'lunatics' and 'thuggish' amongst other insults.

You and lady c are lording over the rest of us 'plebs'/ yes voters (they seen interchangable to you) the way WM lords over Scotland so I'm not surprised you find their style of governance admirable.

Why are you playing the 'woman' card? I have just as much objection to men earning £80k who plead poverty.

Do any of you know how the military are likely to vote? Looks like a potential game changer for their careers.

Earning £80k does not make a person rich. It buys a nice lifestyle which could disappear in a flash with redundancy. Properly rich people are those who could afford a decent lifestyle without ever working again. Very hard to save that much on £80k.

LadyCF may or may not fit into that category but her earnings don't merit the "rich" tag and certainly not the "super rich tag".

I don't know if I'm brave or stupid for sticking my head in here but here goes...

I live in NE Scotland and the No signs around here have all been vandalised. Then a few days later a Yes sign appears on the next property/ field (depending if it's in town or the country) and is left alone. I don't think it represents all Yes voters by any means but there is a definite thug element up here which is trying to suppress outward support for the No voters. Or very bored children with cars driving around doing this.

Also, as someone who is currently in the midst of closing on buying my (hopefully) forever home, there has been a definite slowing of the housing market. For most of the year properties have been selling within two weeks, great for sellers and scary quick for buyers, but now there are properties on the market that are just not shifting. I still check on ASPC in case I see the dream house I wish we'd waited for (masochist?!) and it's the same houses over and over which would have sold easily a few months earlier. Personally I'll be interested to see what happens to the property market after the results are in but only because we've been looking at selling/buying for the past 18 months and I may have become a little obsessed.

£80K is not super rich. It is a really good salary and I'm sure seems like being a millionaire if you are earning a low salary.
But if you can only get a mortgage 3 times salary, what does £240K buy you in Edinburgh? Or £265K with a 10% deposit? A flat. Well that's lording it over the masses for sure

Stationary, I've only seen a couple of vandalised signs in NE Scotland and they were both Yes signs. We obviously just drive along different roads!

Someone earlier who works in property in Aberdeen said there's been the normal summer slow down but nothing beyond that.

stationaryace, you're not being stupid so you must be brave. This thread is a tapestry of anecdotes which could help people see the big picture one way or the other.

Gosh you lot can gab... off to catch up :)

Sallying- I missed you last post, I wasn't dodging it!

I tick most of your list.

Lol at credit cards varying with the base rate!

Lots of mortgage payers are on fixed rates.

More people in Scotland are social tenants or live in owned outright homes. Mortgage payers are in the minority. The private sector is small.

More sensible interest rates would be great for savers and pensioners and in the long term would stop us getting I to another debt bubble again. Which WM seems determined to do. Long term low interest rates are not good for the economy- I should know I studied economics for 4 years.

I dont despise the wealthy but they should pay their fair share. The inequality in the UK is bad for the economy and the wellbing of all, including the rich- read the spirit level.

I never suggested punitive taxation. I actually have a preference for a lower tax, leaner public sector economy. I'm certainly not a communist and not even a socialist but I think what WM are doing to the vulnerable and underprivileged is immoral.

Stationary just the same a bit further south. All No banners vandalised within 24 hrs, no Yes signs touched.

Yes, probably a few young thugs, but so depressing if this reflects the level of political sophistication we're at.

Shakes www.espc.com/properties/details.aspx?pid=336196 a swish 4 bed bungalow?

Grovel- a friend of a friend was talking to someone who works at faslane. He says he is torn. Ideologically he wants yes but thinks he'll lose his job. I think there will be a few people like that on the day.

weatherall, thanks. I'm also wondering about the army. The Scottish Defence Force is going to be a very beast to the British army they signed up for.

The City is shitting itself over a Yes vote. Basically, UK oil exports were £39.3Bn last year, and losing that would be a massive blow to the balance of trade. Really interesting article.

*DoctorTwo", the FTSE is almost at a 14 year high. Hardly a sign of the City shitting itself.

Yep, sterling is hurting but that of course helps exports where we need to be performing better.

grovel
The Scottish Defence Force is going to be a very beast to the British army they signed up for.
No soldier who has sworn allegiance to the crown will be required to join the the defence force of Scotland should it become independent. They are also proposing:
Land forces

An army HQ function and an all-arms brigade, with three infantry/marine units, equipped initially from a negotiated share of current UK assets, and supported by:

a deployable Brigade HQ
two light armoured reconnaissance units
two light artillery units
one engineer unit deploying a range of equipment for bridging, mine clearance and engineering functions
one aviation unit operating six helicopters for reconnaissance and liaison
two communication units
one transport unit
one logistics unit
one medical unit
Special forces, explosives and ordnance disposal teams will bring the total to around 3,500 regular and at least 1,200 reserve personnel.

From where?

Yes, the loss of the oil and gas revenue would make a big hole in rUK's trade.

So that would be good, would it?

And this is at the point of Independence!

I'm sure an iScotland could put together some sort of defence force, although I get the impression it wouldn't be a priority.

Anyone not happy serving with it could obviously go south to serve under the rUK - probably their toys would be a bit bigger and better

I live near Faslane, all faslane workers I know (and that's a LOT) are voting no.

I would very much like Salmond to say more about their jobs. Will they lose them and have to reapply under the scottish defence force? How many jobs will go/stay?

And so many people locally rely on Faslane, that's a lot of jobs being lost.

Irnbru / Itsall - no prejudice here - just observation of some very worrying responses from people.

weatherall, do you have figures for number of properties with current mortgages. about everyone under 60 I know still has a mortgage.

WhatWouldFreddieDo a defence force is not decorative, it is essential. All Armed Forces are UK so any Scottish Armed Forces would have to be trained from scratch or require transferees. In my opinion impossible to match the skills, experience and calibre required by the point of Independence.
Because Defence is neither sexy nor popular only a minority of the electorate are either interested in it or understand what the figures mean. I'm concerned this ignorance is being used to brush such an important matter under the carpet to secure votes. In my opinion reckless and irresponsible.