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AIBU?

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to ask where indyref Part 5 is?

999 replies

grovel · 04/09/2014 14:49

Well?

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grovel · 05/09/2014 16:43

The shit of the super rich smells of lavender.

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grandtheftmanual · 05/09/2014 16:43

Deeedeee, if the result is a yes vote, I will be working as hard as possible to make a success of the country. I will have to. I live here. My family live here.

I am extremely concerned about the large number of people who will be voting yes not because they have looked at the details and can say, hand on heart, that Scotland will be better off as an independent nation, but because it'll be a poke in the eye for WM, one up the a* for the English. And I really cannot imagine that they will up their game, change their lifestyle choices, strive to make this country the place I actually think we all want it to be.

So, please do not imagine that if an iScotland fails to be any better than Scotland is now, that it is down to no voters like me, because it won't be.

IrnBruTheNoo · 05/09/2014 16:44

These comments are not aimed at you though Lady, it's aimed at the mess of the current state of affairs in our society. If I've offended you in previous comments, then I apologise. It wasn't meant to be a personal attack.

deeedeee · 05/09/2014 16:44

As for your EU question, I don't see the point debating it here anymore than I want to watch salmond and darling debate it again. As with most of your concerns there are facts and opinions on both sides of the argument that contradict each other, and what will happen is largely wrapped up in a currency union campaign impasse. Which you either believe is a bluff or not. We believe different things. You think I'm a twat, I think you hold a different opinion to me.

Not sure where the accusations of woo stem from! Ho hum

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 05/09/2014 16:45

Why would interest rates go up for non-government borrowing?

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 05/09/2014 16:50

I am extremely concerned about the large number of people who will be voting yes not because they have looked at the details and can say, hand on heart, that Scotland will be better off as an independent nation, but because it'll be a poke in the eye for WM, one up the a for the English. And I really cannot imagine that they will up their game, change their lifestyle choices, strive to make this country the place I actually think we all want it to be.*

Your prejudices are showing...

deeedeee · 05/09/2014 16:52

Good for you grandtheftmanual. Hopefully whatever way the vote goes more people will behave like you and get behind the majority.

prettybird · 05/09/2014 16:54

I have to challenge that statement Rose - I know plenty of people who "care about education and the NHS" who are voting Yes precisely because they care about education and NHS. My father for one. He and my mum cares/cared passionately about the NHS (and our education system) - indeed, when we emigrated (temporarily),my parents chose NZ 'cos it had an NHS and he wouldn't have to resit his specialist exams unlike Canada , My GP neighbours for another two (actually, three when I think about it). Amongst my Yes voting friends there are teachers who are also parents who care.

That is exactly the sort of generalisation that the recent Better Together campaign shouldn't have engaged in when it tried to suggest that if you cared about your children, you'd vote No. Don't tar yes voters with "not caring" - just as No voters should not be accused of not caring (lots of double negative there! Blush). Both "sides" have different opinions as to the best way forward for the country - but they do both care Smile.

For the record, I was made redundant from my very well paying role when the company I worked for was taken over by an English based company. I could have found another job in that industry if I'd been prepared to move South, but didn't want to. Instead, I used my generous package to have a couple of years out before doing some consultancy work (which I have enjoyed as it involved working with my favourite former customers) and am now also working on developing an American business in the UK with my dh and a friend of his (one Yes voter, one No voter). I am enjoying the freedom to choose my own hours - something I recognise not everyone is able to do.

grandtheftmanual · 05/09/2014 16:54

Which prejudices are those? the ones that suggest all yes voters aren't university educated professionals or even maybe people who've actually read the white paper?

squoosh · 05/09/2014 16:55

OOAOML 'woo hoo' indeed to today's bedroom tax news. Shame on the SNP no shows though who didn't bother turning up to vote against a policy they claim to be so outraged by. Only two SNP MP's turned up to vote.

deeedeee · 05/09/2014 16:55

Lady Cordelia, I've never said I have a problem with you being rich.

I think you should define yourself a little less through it. And I think you're very rude. But I kinda like it!

WhatWouldFreddieDo · 05/09/2014 16:58

On another subject, but on topic natch, I hadn't realised that the Scotland Act 2012 (already law) allows Holyrood to vary income tax, and set land tax, stamp duty and a few others. So Devo Plus rather than Max.

It's due to come into force April 2016, so if it's a No, the SP will still be able to tax the rich more than England does, and then presumably use that money to set welfare at whatever level they think is best.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 05/09/2014 17:01

I am extremely concerned about the large number of people who will be voting yes not because they have looked at the details and can say, hand on heart, that Scotland will be better off as an independent nation, but because it'll be a poke in the eye for WM, one up the a for the English. And I really cannot imagine that they will up their game, change their lifestyle choices, strive to make this country the place I actually think we all want it to be.

Which prejudices are those?

You said a large number of Yes voters have not looked at the details, and are voting yes , not because it is best for Scotland but to get one over on WM/the English. You added that such people were not trying as hard as they could, and had poor lifestyle choices.

Nice.

grovel · 05/09/2014 17:03

grandtheftmanual, that's got to be right. The grafters will continue to graft.

My question from down here in SE England is what direction will you all be pulling in? The YES campaign is such a broad church (in many ways very commendable) that I can't see much coming together behind a common vision. That's my worry for iScotland. Knowing what you don't want is easy. Agreeing a future course is much harder.

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deeedeee · 05/09/2014 17:10

I think no is a broad church too actually . As much a people on either side try to stereotype ( yes voters don't have degrees!!!) ( no voters have no compassion!!!) I think ideologies vary enormously.

grovel · 05/09/2014 17:11

Having said that, the 2016 party manifestos will be interesting. I suppose the SNP can't stray far from the White Paper but Labour, the Conservatives et al will be putting forward their visions in a new context.

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WhatWouldFreddieDo · 05/09/2014 17:11

ItsAllGoing that YouTube clip is cringeworthy, but I'm afraid he is still right.

I know it doesn't seem to bother you much in the long-term, but if Scotland defaults on its share of the debt, as AS has said it may, then the money markets will see Scotland as a high-risk borrower, and charge accordingly.

Those high interest rates will then be passed on to mortgage holders, businesses, ccard holders, anyone who's borrowing money.

grovel · 05/09/2014 17:13

deeedeee, I'm sure you're right but the NO campaign is not advocating radical change.

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Perihelion · 05/09/2014 17:15

What I think that benefits and social security would still be a reserved power.

deeedeee · 05/09/2014 17:24

I think the reality of what will happen if there's a yes vote will be less spectacular than some of the hyperbole. This is all campaigning talk, the actuality will probably feel pretty similar. But with important differences for me.

As for what I'll do if it's a no vote, probably ( move to Iceland in a fit of pique) campaign for the Greens at the next elections and support the establishment on the Common Weal party !

grandtheftmanual · 05/09/2014 17:29

Itsallgoingtobefine it's not prejudice. where I live the pubs/clubs are full of it. (Not all of us no voters are high rate tax payers with £2mil houses!)

deeedeee · 05/09/2014 17:30

Oh and go and drink tea with lady c, wherever she may be!

WhatWouldFreddieDo · 05/09/2014 17:31

Perihelion you're right.

Well, that's one thing I would be happy to see devolved. If the SP has quite a lot more scope to raise taxes, it should also have more scope to spend, and if they feel more/better benefits are what the majority want, then they should be able to change the,m.

WhatWouldFreddieDo · 05/09/2014 17:33

Another thing that's really bothered me the last week or so is that on our school run, every single 'No' banner has been vandalised, graffiti'ed or torn down altogether. Most last 24 hours tops.

None of the 'Yes' signs (about the same number) has been touched.

weatherall · 05/09/2014 17:35

Lady Cordelia I put your £80k salary into this www.ifs.org.uk/wheredoyoufitin/ which puts you in the top 98% of household incomes. Still think you're not 'super rich'?