to ask where indyref Part 5 is?

[grovel]

Well?

Sallyingforth

To be fair if they are second home buyers would they be taxed in Scotland anyway? Are second homes exempt from council tax?

NC your argument is for proportional representation.

Of course, 53 constituencies aren't going to have a large effect on a government of 650 constituencies.

Since that's the Torygraph you linked to, I'll take it with a pinch of salt Sally. A snippet from the article you linked to:

"Murray Beith Murray, an Edinburgh law firm, said properties in the city’s New Town worth between £1 million and £2 million were most affected as they were often bought by wealthy people moving up from London."

Completely out of touch with the average house buyer in Scotland!! FFS who has £1 million to spend on buying a house?! This article is not affecting the average house buyer/seller in Scottish towns and cities, but may affect the minority who are extremely affluent.

LadyC I couldn't see that article because i dont

Soir, am on phone - don't have an ft subscription. Please could you provide a diff link if available?

I know Lady, if there's less people from down south buying property in Scotland, then those who have lived in Scotland all their lives will be able to afford to move to a nearby town without being priced out.

IrnBru the housing market is stagnating. a friend is trying to sell her house (3 bed semi in the borders which is on the market for £160k, not £2mil) and her estate agent has admitted nothing is selling pending referendum, and warned her not to expect a quick sale after a yes vote. she is having to move because of a job change within Scotland, and at the moment is having to split her week and live away from home for 4 nights. Not ideal, and costly.

The market is stagnating regardless of independence or not. Houses in my area are not selling fast (I am nosey and check in nearby streets what's up for sale and how long it's taking to sell) and this was a couple of years ago until now. There's just no change, it hasn't slowed down or sped up. It's got nothing to do with the referendum from what I've witnessed locally.

LadyCordeliaFlyte

Thanks. I'm trying to compile links to articles / documents "straight from the horse's mouth" as it were - given that right now a lot of different claims and quotes are flying around, both for and against independence, in different newspapers, with varying levels of substantiation or contextual info. Something a lot of people have mentioned on here is frustration at not being able to get beyond "sound-bite" quotes to actual figures and research, which has been on my mind a lot.

So, for anyone interested in the debate surrounding the cost of set-up:

Here is the initial report by Patrick Dunleavy: blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/files/2014/06/Transitioning-to-a-new-Scottish-state-PD-ebook.pdf

Here is Iain McLean's critique of the report: eprints.lse.ac.uk/57705/1/democraticaudit.com-What_will_it_really_cost_to_set_up_an_independent_Scotland_A_critique_of_Patrick_Dunleavys_report.pdf

And here is Prof Dunleavy's response to the critique: www.democraticaudit.com/?p=6389

Lots to catch up on!

There will be no Devo max. Scotland's vote isn't significant enough to drive any change from WM. Also given the growth of the English population the number of Scottish MPs will continue to be cut. Everyone forgets how many fewer MPs we have since devolution.

The white paper is wide ranging and ambitious because it isn't a 5 year manifesto. Why can't we envisage what childcare provision we would like in 10/20/30 years? The long term possibilities only independence can bring are endless.

The yes campaign isn't just politicians. Most campaigners are ordinary people with no political ambition. BT has virtually no (ooaoml excepted) grassroots doorstepping support.

To say the UK should stay together because we are an island is laughable- what about Northern Ireland?

DeeeDeee is right in that it is the scaremongerers fault if the markets lose confidence. Look at fuel/cash shortages- it is the panicking that causes the crisis. I remember the 2010/11 winter snow where the shelves were bare. I remember leaving a loaf of bread in case someone else needed it more than me. Chelsy, Ladycordeliaflyte et al would probably take that loaf and put it in their freezer.

bardar you are right in that yes support is strongest in men aged 18-34 so if it is 50/50 now there will be a clear yes majority in 20 years time.

rose education may be devolved but WM controls how much we can spend on it, so it's a false 'responsibility'.

wearenotinkansas I agree about councils being unresponsive. I'm hoping that the increased political engagement triggered by the referendum will increase council election voting so numpties stop getting elected. I know at least one party is making all it's councillors go through selection and vetting again before 2017 to weed out the dross.

chelsy I said house price stability would be good. I never said 'plummet'. Many of those who "work in responsible jobs" are voting yes. But carry on patronising us, you are only making yourself look petty.

I lost my job in the recession (not helped by WM policies) but didn't emigrate! What a ridiculous over reaction that would be. Some posters sound like tantruming toddlers.

If you FS people are so worried about your jobs then maybe you should be spending your time working on your CVs rather than insulting others on mn?

I do genuinely have some work to do and have only skimmed the thread, will try and catch up later. Just wanted to share some good news (sorry for BBC link, not got time to find a range of sources right now) - the Affordable Homes bill passed its reading, and will now go to the committee stage.

Obviously not law yet, but apparently now in with a chance. Will exempt a lot of people from the bedroom tax. Lib Dems voted against Government.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29075300

Any chance of a collective 'woo hoo' from both sides? Whatever happens this is surely good news!

"Oh dear IrnBru. You need to do some of that retraining that DeeEdee recommends. Start with economics 101."

Please quit with the patronising remarks Lady. It is very petty and derails the thread.

An article about £1 million homes in Edinburgh's New Town is not relevant to the average Scottish household which pays a fraction of that for a family home.

If there were less people from outwith Scotland buying homes in Scotland, there would be more chance of those already living in Scotland to upsize without being priced out of the market.

Education is NOT controlled in terms of spending by Westminster. The Scottish Government chooses how to slice up the pie and they CHOOSE to give money to some things to win votes (free personal care for the elderly, no tuition fees, council tax freeze, free prescriptions).

Money from some / all / any one of these could go a long way to helping people to get out of the trap of poor qualifications / low expectations/ low paid work / unemployment through EDUCATION.

I am not sure how you don't understand this. Every child who does not do as well as they could in school is the responsibility of the Scottish Government - not Westminster.

When the SNP came into power there was a maximum class size of 20 for Maths and English in S1/S2. That no longer exists because they will not give councils the money to pay for it. Real progress was being made with these pupils under the Lib / Lab coalition.

Thanks for the link. I have to say thanks to all of you for a v interesting discussion, and I hope things are positive for all of you post ref.

To me the noes seem to have it at the moment.

"I remember leaving a loaf of bread in case someone else needed it more than me. Chelsy, Ladycordeliaflyte et al would probably take that loaf and put it in their freezer."

Aye, probably! It's all about 'me me me' after all...

who hoo from me!

bother - woo hoo I meant!

I remember the 2010/11 winter snow where the shelves were bare. I remember leaving a loaf of bread in case someone else needed it more than me. Chelsy, Ladycordeliaflyte et al would probably take that loaf and put it in their freezer.

This really is heading into bizarro territory.