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Original poster

to ask where indyref Part 5 is?

999 replies

grovel · 04/09/2014 14:49

Well?

OP posts:
ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 05/09/2014 13:13

Every country officially in the euro, sorry

Sallyingforth · 05/09/2014 13:14

deedee
Yur last comment is disgracefully patronising and insulting.

You know nothing of Freddie's family circumstances.

To suggest that her DH and the thousands of others can suddenly find new jobs in a shrinking labour market, while still maintaining their families and paying rent or mortgage, is just plain stupid, as well as insulting.

You should be ashamed, and you are rapidly losing the sympathy I previously had for your position in this discussion.

LadyCordeliaFlyte · 05/09/2014 13:14

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ChelsyHandy · 05/09/2014 13:15

LadyCordeliaFlight DeeDee, yes it will be impossible for me to find another job like mine in Scotland if there is a yes vote. My role is very specialised and only exists in FS companies. Why would I want to stay here and retrain at my age (late 40s)? And what would you suggest I retrain as? A woo practitioner like you?

Oh come on now. Know your place! Stand by your man or something. Or volunteer in a community centre or café, or stack shelves for pin money. You are forever labelled by some on here as a bad, bad woman for saying you earn more than the NMW! You know you only count as a sort of half vote for that reason alone.

squoosh · 05/09/2014 13:15

'If you think an independent Scotland is worth it, retraining won't be an issue. If you don't think it's worth it, there are plenty other parts of the world to relocate to and you can continue with your chosen profession.'

It's very easy for you to bleat 'retrain if you love Scotland' but how exactly do people retrain and simultaneously maintain the standard of living they're used?

You are being childishly simplistic.

IrnBruTheNoo · 05/09/2014 13:15

FS seems to be a very volatile market to work in from what I've read so far on these threads, with job security not being very, erm, secure.

I trained in a profession where I can get work anywhere in the world, the qualification is universally recognised. Lots of thought was put into it at the time so I knew I'd always be in a position to find work wherever I was in the world. I was thinking long term then, and I'm thinking long term now in terms of the independence referendum and what lies beyond.

OOAOML · 05/09/2014 13:16

in 2007, Montenegro was told an independent central bank was a prerequesite for EU membership.

And I think the EU is an excellent example of the problems with fiscal union without close political union.

IrnBruTheNoo · 05/09/2014 13:17

"simultaneously maintain the standard of living they're used"

That's why the country is in such a mess, because people are greedy and just want more and more money all the time. Why always be driven by financial gain? It's about changing your mindset, reframing, if it really matters to you about staying in Scotland should we become independent.

ChelsyHandy · 05/09/2014 13:17

So basically from what I read on here lately, Yes supporters are happy to drive out their fellow Scots from Scotland (possibly replacing them with more compliant citizens), so that their socialist ideology can triumph?

So they can create a tiny corner on the edge of Europe where all those unwanted socialists can go and tell themselves they are wonderful, and where there will be no-one left to contradict them?

OK, I admit the last paragraph is highly tongue-in-cheek. But still.

IrnBruTheNoo · 05/09/2014 13:18

"And rather a lot of them seem to be based in the central belt of Scotland."

F*ck me, what is it with the stereotyping?!

ChelsyHandy · 05/09/2014 13:19

IrnBru That's why the country is in such a mess, because people are greedy and just want more and more money all the time. Why always be driven by financial gain? It's about changing your mindset, reframing, if it really matters to you about staying in Scotland should we become independent.

Do you hold something against people who actually have jobs and work for a living or something? I'm beginning to think so.

How dare people have ambition! Bad, bad people! Even worse, working for money! What next!

WhatWouldFreddieDo · 05/09/2014 13:20

ItsAllGoing yes, of course Euro countries share a currency and central bank. They are mostly in deep economic distress because countries like Portugal cannot match the economic efficiency of Germany, but have to put up with the interest rate set by the Euro Central Bank.

If Scotland shares the pound and the Bank of England, they will not be independent. they will have to match all their macro-economic policies to Westminsters to match the interest rate set by rUK - set to suit rUK, not Scotland.

ChelsyHandy · 05/09/2014 13:20

IrnBru And rather a lot of them seem to be based in the central belt of Scotland."Fck me, what is it with the stereotyping?!*

That's where the shipbuilding and mining industries are mainly located fgs!

LatinForTelly · 05/09/2014 13:20

Checking in again for this thread, although can't devote enough time to it (and will never be as articulate and concise as the likes of StatisticallyChallenged et al (can't name all of you!)

Still a no.

On education, it saddens me that something for which Scotland was known to be great is being eroded.

And what roseformeplease said a few pages back:

It is no longer about ambition and looking outward, it is about low aspirations and looking inwards.

This absolutely. Scotland has always punched above its weight when it's been looking outwards.

squoosh · 05/09/2014 13:21

'That's why the country is in such a mess, because people are greedy and just want more and more money all the time. Why always be driven by financial gain? It's about changing your mindset, reframing, if it really matters to you about staying in Scotland should we become independent.'

You really do have something against people with career ambitions. How dare someone want to earn a salary that offers them a comfortable lifestyle.

LadyCordeliaFlyte · 05/09/2014 13:22

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

IrnBruTheNoo · 05/09/2014 13:24

I'm not the biggest fan of capitalism (latest news in the States about fast food workers being the greatest example of why it doesn't work). RT News covers this story well.

Nothing wrong with having ambition, but you can be ambitious and not be driven by financial gains. Both are not mutually exclusive!

Sallyingforth · 05/09/2014 13:24

*simultaneously maintain the standard of living they're used"

That's why the country is in such a mess, because people are greedy and just want more and more money all the time.

It's not greedy to maintain a standard of living you have worked for.
It's not greedy to stay in the job you have worked in all your life,
It's not greedy to want to pay the rent or mortgage.
It's not greedy to stay in the area where you and your family have grown up.

It IS greedy, and bloody selfish to expect other people to suffer for your own unrealistic political ideals.

LadyCordeliaFlyte · 05/09/2014 13:27

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

wearenotinkansas · 05/09/2014 13:27

Statistically - that thought about the miners (and shipbuilders and others) occurred to me too.

I actually did retrain when I came up here but there was no one willing to employ me. So I went back to what I was doing before - and I was pretty lucky to find this job. My area is pretty specialized and niche already. There are aren't many jobs here anyway. There will be less after independence.

And I am the main earner, how are we meant to manage financially while I try and find another career?

IrnBruTheNoo · 05/09/2014 13:28

Fast Food Protests

Too much wealth at the top, it's needing to trickle down IMO.

LadyCordeliaFlyte · 05/09/2014 13:29

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ChelsyHandy · 05/09/2014 13:29

IrnBru Nothing wrong with having ambition, but you can be ambitious and not be driven by financial gains. Both are not mutually exclusive!

You can also have personal moral beliefs that prevent you from wanting to impose your will on others and from looking down upon them if they don't share the same ideological beliefs as yourself.

You come across as quite unpleasant to read, because you seem to imply that people who don't share your rather strong and frankly quite extreme ideological views are somehow less worthy than other humans who do. And that sort of thinking is in my mind too similar to regimes across the world who have used that as an excuse for all sorts of abuses of their fellow citizens.

IrnBruTheNoo · 05/09/2014 13:30

Having to rely on news channels like RT and Aljazeera these days, cannot trust a word the BBC says at all.

deeedeee · 05/09/2014 13:30

Crickey, what is so hugely insulting in suggesting people can do a different job than the one they do now? Life is full of change. Like I keep saying I think my husband probably works with statistically. There is a possibility he could lose his job if there is a possibility you all could. If I'm insulting you I'm insulting myself.

If the majority of people vote No then fair enough, there's not a consensus and an energy and it wouldn't have worked to become independant.

It feels very much like it will happen to me though!

An inspiring man I once met was Stewart Noble , a former entrepreneur who went bankrupt in the 80's . Instead of commiting suicide as he first almost did, he set up this www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/bank-accounts/2835495/Lets-help-each-other.html. It's the impossibility that some of you think it is to change.