to wonder what English MNers think of the Scottish referendum?

[OTheHugeManatee]

I'm English. I quite want Scotland to vote Yes. Personally I'm not sure the financial arguments stack up but I think you can argue it either way. I want a Yes vote not because I think Scotland should eff off or anything puerile like that, but because I think we're long overdue a serious constitutional shakeup in the British Isles and a Yes vote might well be the thing to trigger it.

Also I'm quietly (and, I hope non-xenophobically) quite firmly Eurosceptic. One of my main objections to rule from Brussels is the lack of democratic legitimacy: I don't feel that my vote counts for much in deciding who gets into power there. So I can sympathise with Scottish complaints that they feel the Westminster government doesn't represent their views and never really will. Given that I want freedom from Brussels so as to go back to self-determination as a democratic nation, logically I can't object to Scotland wanting the same thing.

But other English MNers seem to feel quite strongly the other way. If you're English, what's your view?

If you want to experience sectarianism go to an old firm match and there is a rather sad minority of Scots who do hate the English, so it is tempting to say I hope they F off and let's rebuild Hadrians wall! Lol

In all seriousness though I hope they do vote yes, I do think the scots should be wary of Salmond and Sturgeon though, I get the impression they would take independence at any cost. For me the sums don't add up and their plans for a currency looks like it was written on the back of a beer mat in the pub after drinking one whiskey to many!

Listening to Alex Salmonds plans for a fairer society with increased spending in every area barring defence sounds good but by borrowing money to pay for it? When they will be saddled with an enormous debt? With rising unemployment if firms do move south? I think a lot of Scots are going to be disappointed with the reality of independence.

neart I was jumping to say that was offensive, but then I kind of realised that if we become independent, we're essentially saying the exact same thing about the rUK- that we don't want, that it's strangling us, limiting us and so on, which is what a lot of Yes voters I know are saying.

I'm actually surprised by the level of support by the English to retain the union.

I do agree with the poster upthread, this referendum is nothing to do with being anti-English, just purely on what we think is best for governing our country.

I know the debate has moved on, but if I had a vote I would be voting NO.
I value the diversity of the union, I think it is a valuable thing in democracy to be able to acknowledge difference and yet stay together.

As the descendant of many Scots who lives in England, I hope it is no. I also think that if Scotland went it would mean we would be much less likely to vote to stay in Europe if there is a referendum on that, which would be an utter disaster as far as I am concerned.

It seems to me that the greatest thing motivating the yes camp is that they basically want to never have a Tory government ever, which strikes me as a bit childish. Everyone has to live under a government they don't like the flavour of every now and then.

I hope everyone can live with whatever the result is, and that if it is 'yes', that Scotland doesn't go downhill economically, which I fear it will. It wouldn't do the rUK any good to have an economic basketcase on its doorstep, and it would cause many very poor areas of Scotland great misery.

The Union is a bit like a natural ecosystem - it has evolved over several hundred years to give us a stable political system which is neither too right or too left. I am worried about what will happen if the ecosystem is upset. I am also particularly worried about things kicking off in NI again.

The Yes campaign have something going round on facebook at the moment about how the choice is either yes, we want to run our own country or no, we want another country to do it (paraphrasing).

Which isn't technically true, as we are one country. I get the point that is being made but it just makes me feel a bit... sad. Sad that at least parts of the Scottish population already see Scotland as a totally separate country.

Also, neither of the two "sides" seem to have a really solid argument. As has been said above, Salmond seems more interested in going down in history and saying "yeah it'll be great, just vote yes" and there are plenty of people both north and south of the border who have no trust in Westminster/the No campaign. What if you have no confidence in either option?

Yes, I've heard quite a few "we never voted for the tories" arguments. Well, neither did I, neither did plenty of people. That's why we've got a coalition. In fact, nobody in the entire UK voted for what we have at the moment.

Without the Scots, I'm not sure what will happen next year.

Another one here who feels so incredibly sad at the prospect of the Union being dismantled. If we look at the rest of the world and we look at so many things that we do fantastically well in the UK - why on earth are we considering splitting it up? Just as we see so many parts of the world being torn apart by hatred and division we perpetuate it here.
I also feel disenfranchised - this massively important issue is in the hands of just one of the countries and I have no say or ability to influence such a potentially destructive act. So so sad and so so wrong...(Scottish by birth but living in England).

If I were Scotland, I'd be running as fast as I could from the stinking mess the Tories have made of this country. However, I really, REALLY don't want them to go.

I can see Scotland from my kitchen window - can't believe that in a couple of weeks it may be a 'foreign' country

Seff - yes, I find that idea sad too. Apart from anything else, ok right now we've got a very English heavy cabinet, but the last Prime Minister was Scottish, the one before was born in Edinburgh, the Labour cabinet was full of Scots, yet people in Cheshire and Essex weren't complaining about being ruled by people from another country.

I do think we'll all be worse off apart, and I do think economically Scotland will struggle, I hope not, but there's going to be a lot of pain.

There's been no clear information about the long-term implications for people like him.

Sorry but what on earth do you think is going up happen?

I am English living in Scotland. I am an EU citizen. In the event of independence I may then have dual nationality. But my ethnic identity is still white English.

Many, many people grow up in one country and live in another!

I'd like a Yes vote, for Scotland to become bankrupt & then I could snap up a cheap holiday cottage

Seriously though, it's going to be a No, which will be much better for Scotland & the rest of the UK.

I'm completely English, no Scottish roots at all, and I hope they vote no.

On a practical/economic level I'm not convinced that either country will benefit from a spilt. Emotionally, it would make me sad to see the union break up. Selfishly, I am left wing and worry about the effect on the balance in Westminster without Scottish MPs.

And ideologically I just think unions are a better idea. I don't like nationalism of any sort, and I think that, increasingly, government at a national level just isn't effective. So many of the big issues are cross border and have to be dealt with on an international level, and most of the day to day stuff is better dealt with locally/regionally. As others have pointed out, if Scotland goes, it increases the chances of the rest of the UK pulling out of Europe (a very bad idea as far as I am concerned), and a no vote would hopefully lead to further devolution of power to all areas of the UK, which is long overdue.

I accept that these aren't necessarily the reasons for which Scottish voters would vote one way or the other, they are simply the reasons why I am hoping they vote no.

"Which isn't technically true, as we are one country. I get the point that is being made but it just makes me feel a bit... sad. Sad that at least parts of the Scottish population already see Scotland as a totally separate country."

But growing up in Scotland that's how I felt. Scotland IS a separate country but we pull together in the Union for government and defence etc. Not sure how other Scots see it or how they felt growing up.

Well, if they vote for independence my mil and pil will be foreigners! Have they really thought this through? No they haven't !

I am Scottish and do not hate the English or England. I asked English DH and he, in 30 years plus of living in Scotland, has not experienced direct anti-English sentiments. He's seen some disturbing graffiti and heard a few silly jokes but that's it. And he's voting Yes.

Bambambini That's interesting. Maybe it's an English thing, it perhaps comes from the old view that England 'owned' Scotland. I do like to think of us as one country though, in an equal sense of course!

There is a strong local identity in the northern counties though, I'm mainly familiar with Lancashire and Yorkshire folk, and I think that northerners (generally) are more aligned with the Scots than with the south. I think that's partly why I, personally, would like a no vote.

If I could vote to make Lancashire/the north independent from the rest of England I'd vote yes every time!

As I asked earlier what's going to happen to the military? A lot of scots fight in the British army, what about the naval bases?

I suppose it will create jobs as they will need to implement a border control system, their version of HMRC etc but I still can't help think people are voting with their hearts and not their heads on this

What often happens in elections, apparently, is that there are a middle ground of floating voters who say they will vote for somebody new or some ideal but in the end they don't, they stick with what they know. I suspect that unless the yes campaign really pull ahead they aren't going to win. The hearts of many may want to vote yes, but when it comes to it, with the complete lack of any plan in place or any idea of what will happen if they get independence, they will vote with their heads and reject the uncertainty with a no vote.

Do you mean English or British people living outside Scotland? Because if the former I can't answer, I have spent about equal times in Wales, England and Scotland through my life, now in Wales, and if this goes ahead at least one of my daughters will end up with a different nationality to me. Therefore, from a personal perspective, I find it unpleasant and worrying. From a political perspective I can see both sides, though I really don't think there will be much difference other than making things more faffy and inconvenient for families like mine who have various generations born in different parts of the UK. I do not want to be governed by tories any more than anyone living in Scotland, and considerably less than some in Dumfries and Galloway for example. I know that Scotland has its own extreme wealth, separated from extreme poverty by maybe wider geographical distances and greater wealth disparities than the rest of the UK, and for this reason I think it is unlikely to become more equal, though I think it might perhaps be useful for Scotland resident socialists to discover that it's their own rich maintaining inequality, rather than OMGtheEnglish as Irvine Welsh etc would have people believe. If I had any choice, I would leave the UK entirely and move somewhere with a more stable, quiet, social democratic attitude, like the Nordic countries. Scotland is never going to be like those culturally or socially, any more than the rest of the UK is, short of a major ideological change and a massive programme of education to prevent there from being so many stupid people in positions of power.

It would be a no from me.

I think the upheaval will cost both country's a lot - although England would recover quicker than Scotland.

Ididn'tseeit - as with most of it, I don't know if there is a plan but sort of assumed that Scottish would get all the Scottish regiments and Scottish people in other regiments would get the option to move back to Scotland. They don't want Trident so the rest of Britain would get that back and the 15,000 jobs that go with it.

But the scots I know in the military love having the queen as their figurehead and are proud to fight for her...so will there be a mini military referendum??

Brilliant about 15000 jobs coming into England! The more I'm finding out the more positive this will be for England

Isn't the Queen going to stay their head of state? I don't know. I am not sure anybody else does which is more worrying!

Why would she stay their head of state when they're going for independence? Or will they stay part of the commonwealth?