to wonder what English MNers think of the Scottish referendum?

[OTheHugeManatee]

I'm English. I quite want Scotland to vote Yes. Personally I'm not sure the financial arguments stack up but I think you can argue it either way. I want a Yes vote not because I think Scotland should eff off or anything puerile like that, but because I think we're long overdue a serious constitutional shakeup in the British Isles and a Yes vote might well be the thing to trigger it.

Also I'm quietly (and, I hope non-xenophobically) quite firmly Eurosceptic. One of my main objections to rule from Brussels is the lack of democratic legitimacy: I don't feel that my vote counts for much in deciding who gets into power there. So I can sympathise with Scottish complaints that they feel the Westminster government doesn't represent their views and never really will. Given that I want freedom from Brussels so as to go back to self-determination as a democratic nation, logically I can't object to Scotland wanting the same thing.

But other English MNers seem to feel quite strongly the other way. If you're English, what's your view?

Pumpkin to be fair the "eff off" comments had already been pulled up. By me for a starters.

Well yes I am originally from London and would really like a vote in a mayoral elections.

im Scottish but have lived in England most of my life.

Im very interested in the debate and I think the scots would be nuts to not grab the opportunity for independence and it will be a great thing for a disenfranchised nation. Don't forget the united kingdom is barely a few hundred years old and was controversial even then.

I hope they grab the chance

I'm English. And I've been watching the news articles about the vote - but the thing that scares me the most about it is the fact that people are voting for such a huge thing which will have ramifications both in Scotland and the rest of the UK - but that there are still so many massive things that are unknown. So, things like the currency, membership of the EU, and so many more - both sides are saying what they hope will happen, but neither side really knows. The No vote don't seem to have explained the problems with using sterling without being involved in the rate setting or having any control or power over it and why should Westminster give it that when it will negatively impact the rest of the UK potentially (and I think they have said they won't) and the Yes vote seem pretty sure that they will be able to join Europe without having to have the Euro and no thought to what will happen to borders as that will be an issue if they do join up under the current rules for joining up (which is what the EU have said I believe).

I'm also even more wary of Salmond in recent weeks - he seems to have been buffed and groomed and poured into sharp suits, he suddenly seems to have realised that image can make a difference and he's gone for it, the rough and real life politician has been made over into a media friendly one and in my mind it makes him into yet another slimy unreal untrustworthy politician.

The other thing is I was recently talking to someone who lives in Shetland who was saying that there seems to be very little appetite in Shetland (and maybe in the other Islands too) for scottish independence. What would happen if they decided they didn't want scottish independence, they wanted their own independence? and even wanted to join back up with England (or potentially Norway given it's closer than Edinburgh). if they said they wanted to vote for independence from scotland then Salmond could hardly say no to them - and he would have to let them vote for themselves, he could hardly argue otherwise he would have let the rest of the UK vote on the scottish independence issue too, so the rest of scotland shouldn't get a say. if they decided to go then they take with them a large part of the oil revenues - lots of it is shetland based rather than scotland based - which would mean that the financials within scotland would be very different again.

Give it a hundred years - I forsee the chinese buying up all the scottish debt and then foreclosing, it would become the reverse of what Hong Kong used to be except this time it would be the chinese nationals coming over for the whiskey and golf...

it's hard to see any particular issue or group of issues getting enough traction to spark a series of secessions. I just can't see any serious appetite for it.
Generally speaking, and as it stands right now, I agree with you. During the last Presidential election though, I wasn't so sure.

You're right about the Civil War having cast a long shadow - but it works in both directions, as it doesn't always feel like the Confederate States were all fully repatriated.

Sometimes it feels as if the whole thing is very precariously balanced, and just one piece shifting out of place could have a domino effect. I've lived in the US (Cascadia, if you'd rather ) for more than 30 years, and it hasn't always felt this way.

And only about 6 years ago I had somebody assure me, beyond a reasonable doubt, that the question of Scottish independence was a politically a dead issue for "at least 50 years".
Now it's possible that he just wasn't paying attention, but sometimes things do change that quickly.

Things are changing here in Scotland very quickly! People who were No voters are seriously thinking of going Yes.

As I can see downsides to such a quick move to independence I feel like a long-term boozer at a Methodist rally. and with a touch of that I can't share the rapture!

When it actually comes to voting I think people tend to err on the side of caution. They may consider changing their minds at the 11th hour but on the polling day itself they stick with their original vote. I think that is what the voting stats show anyway. That is why it is all up for grabs until the last minute if the polls are close.

My goodness I have just spent the last hour reading 2 newspaper articles on line and the associated comments.

The comments are probably more relevant than the articles actually because you just know the papers in question are putting their spin on things.

Whichever way this vote goes it has caused a hell of a lot of resentment. I am not sure how Scotland can recover from this and I am very glad I don't live there. I suspect that if it were a no vote it might be easier because it would require no change and would therefore be easier for the average voter to forget. I don't know. I am just guessing. If there is a yes vote without a massive landslide win, I guessing years of resentment from the no voters and a lot of disillusionment from the yes voters when the reality isn't any better and more equal than what they have now.

Big that's my feeling.

Same here, bertha
A small Yes majority will leave a huge number of people very resentful, and being dragged reluctantly into a huge change in their lives and prospects. It is not a situation that any sensible person can relish.

I have a feeling even the 'yes' voters who get their dream of independence are quickly going to be disillusioned by the reality. It seems to be independence at any cost, without thought or planning. It could be a whole generation or more before the impact lessens.

In case anybody is interested in the are the articles - this is one in The Scotsman

Another in The Telegraph

I am aware of the bias that will come into these reports but I was more interested in the comments and the general tone of the debate.

Has anybody seen the Goldman Sachs view on the matter mentioned in both of these?

- Article on the Goldman Sachs view

I do wonder if the pro-independence commentator in the last paragraph actually read any of the report. What he is saying is at odds with the rest of the article I thought.

It's like most of the Yes responses to negative reports:

"Don't try and confuse me with facts - I trust Salmond and I've made up my mind"

The fall out is going to be immense, which ever side wins. I have English friends who live here already having their houses valued with a view to selling up if its a YES vote. Same with businesses. Its dominating everything g at the moment. I am involved is several projects with the MoD. All have been put on hold, pending the vote, to the detriment of the local businesses who stood to benefit.