to wonder what English MNers think of the Scottish referendum?

[OTheHugeManatee]

I'm English. I quite want Scotland to vote Yes. Personally I'm not sure the financial arguments stack up but I think you can argue it either way. I want a Yes vote not because I think Scotland should eff off or anything puerile like that, but because I think we're long overdue a serious constitutional shakeup in the British Isles and a Yes vote might well be the thing to trigger it.

Also I'm quietly (and, I hope non-xenophobically) quite firmly Eurosceptic. One of my main objections to rule from Brussels is the lack of democratic legitimacy: I don't feel that my vote counts for much in deciding who gets into power there. So I can sympathise with Scottish complaints that they feel the Westminster government doesn't represent their views and never really will. Given that I want freedom from Brussels so as to go back to self-determination as a democratic nation, logically I can't object to Scotland wanting the same thing.

But other English MNers seem to feel quite strongly the other way. If you're English, what's your view?

Used to think no but so fed of it i don't care now. Half wondering if better the Scottish went if they hate the english so much. I do think the Scottish people would be silly to vote yes as there is so much undecided like money, businesses etc but it's their choice. Whatever is decided this vote has divided people in Scotland and divided Scotland from England. Only time will tell if this can be mended. (English living in England)

ididntsee not at all, a girl I know is very pro-yes but she wants to be an actress so had to move to where there were roles available. She lives in England but is posting a lot of Yes stuff on facebook.

To the point about Salmond wanting the pound but not the debt, that's nonsense. He has said that if England don't agree to a currency union then we can walk away from the debt but use the currency anyway. A currency union would mean that we would take our share of the debt.

Surely she should be supporting Scottish theatres and film industry then if she is so pro independence?

I find it worrying that 16 and 17 years olds have been given the vote. I don't think they have enough experience of life to make a mature decision.

I also find it concerning that x hundred years of union can be broken up with one vote with a 1% majority. I kind of feel that either it should be a 2/3 majority, or there should be a repeated yes vote in say 4 years time before going ahead with such a major move.

I too think that independence seems to be too tied to Alex Salmond - he won't be around forever.

I think scots living in England have already voted by virtue of where they moved to haven't they?!

Not really no. It's not that simple is it?

Born English, mostly Scottish parents and lots of family there. I hope they vote NO. I consider myself British and I don't know what I'll be afterwards.

I also think that the yes campaign is strong on rhetoric and the no campaign is strong on fear. Neither is a good argument. I don't think the numbers add up BTW but know that my Scottish relations don't see that as a good enough reason to vote no.

Well I am "English", Scottish surname and very distant Scottish ancestry. My heart hopes that the Scots take this opportunity to free themselves though I think it is walking a knife edge economically. My Mum comes from a small northern European country which does quite nicely, as I am sure Scotland could do.

I am bloody scared of the loss of the non Tory Scottish MPs at Westminster though. Does this mean permanent Tory Government for those of us left in the rest of the UK, I hope not.

Used to think no but so fed of it i don't care now. Half wondering if better the Scottish went if they hate the english so much.

Another English "they hate us so they should go" attitude. Don't tell me - Andy Murray made a remark about English football as a teenager which proves it.

teen Salmond has pointed this out time and time again and has said that he would step down tomorrow if that's what the people wanted to guarantee a Yes vote. To be honest, a lot of undecideds that I've spoken to are undecided BECAUSE of him.

Ididn'tseeit - The entire island of Ireland had a vote on the terms of the Good Friday Agreement in 1998. Part of the referendum, was an alteration of the Irish constitution to change Articles 2 & 3, from claiming that the whole of the island of Ireland formed one territory, to a wish for peaceful reunification if it was the democratic will of the people. The referendum passed, with the majority on both sides of the border being in favour.

There has been no further request for any other vote on this question, hence one has not been held.

As for the OP, I believe in the UK, I want Scotland to stay. I've read both sides and lurked avidly on the Indyref threads here and I really think the Yes campaign is all hot air and very little of actual substance.

But it is

They're now Scottish ex-pats.

British ex-pats lose their right to vote after 15 years of being out of the country which means many middle aged scots would probably not have a right to vote if we went by those rules

Been hearing a lot about bullying from scots to English who live there

I lived there for a while and never had this once. Not once. It may come from some ignorant quarters but that doesn't mean everyone is like that.

I went to Glasgow once. Didn't realise an old firm game was due that weekend

Xenophobia at it's finest.

Because they've made such a song and dance about it.

It would be great if people could try further than thinking it would be funny if Scotland failed because "they" (presumably you mean the campaigners?) have made "such a song and dance about it.". Think of people living there. Think of the implications on the whole island. Failed states (not that I'm equating Scotland with Somalia or anything) generally aren't very nice places.

I don't understand why rUK would be saddled with a Tory government forevermore.

We live in a democracy.

Surely, if England's not happy with it's ministers and/or WM, it can vote to change that?

I wonder whether this upsurge in political engagement amongst the masses will mean we'll get political independent councillors and ministers popping up.

Or, possibly, the return of Spitting Image

Glasgow on a match day is clearly highly indicative of the attitude of the whole country. I mean, obviously.

I was hoping they will stay but now feel that if they do vote yes then rUK might benefit from am influx of jobs especially in the financial market and ship building would return back to England.

So I guess I am no longer worried either way.

Economically it will be bad for rUK - we're struggling to come out of a recession (exacerbated by the idiotic 1930s policies of the current government) and the impact on rUK's debt/GDP ratio, all the unproductive work in splitting off Scottish institutions etc is the last thing we need. It won't be any consolation that it will be even worse economically for iScotland.
Politically, I believe that we're over centralised and need a more decentralised federal model like Germany. That won't happen if Scotland leaves.
I must confess that I don't understand why on MN UKIP are bad, but SNP are not. Little Englander = bad. Little Scotlander = good.

I find it a bit odd that Scottish people living outside the country don't get a vote. What about if a Scottish person wants to move back to Scotland in x years' time? What if they want and independent Scotland but the vote goes 'no' and they don't like what they go back to, or vice versa?

Then again, should tax-avoiding Scots abroad really get a vote? It's all very vexed.

I'm fed up of the 'Westminster doesn't represent me' argument/sentiment. I think it's flimsy and specious. I live in London and Westminster doesn't represent me either –I didn't vote for the ConDems! Also, whoever is in power people will always moan.

I read on here that the idea that it is only and always Scotland stops the UK from having a permanent Tory government is false and that in fact it's only been the case twice in about the past fifty years. I'm afraid I can't find the thread or the evidence for this now, though.

I want Scotland to stay in the union because I feel that bigger is better than smaller. I'm essentially a socialist and believe in pooling people and resources to everyone's good, rather than parcelling up the world into smaller units.

But if they want to go let them.

The only honest argument I've heard from an English person for keeping them is to prevent more Tory governments which is a crap reason to keep the scots!

'Or, possibly, the return of Spitting Image'

I so miss Spitting Image. God knows we need it.

Ididntseeitsoitdidnthappen - I don't think there's a public/political desire for a referendum in NI - this isn't something being imposed on Scotland from Westminster, it's something their devolved local politicians have stood for and people have chosen by voting SNP. I'm pretty sure if there was a ground swell in NI for independence, there would be a referendum. (plus that's rather a 3rd option not talked about traditionally, it's normally "UK or Ireland, which country do you want to be part of?" not offered the 3rd option of being their own little state, that might actually be popular if offered)

Yes, if only it were that simple Ididn't.

It won't be, though, if Scotland become a separate nation. My Dad is Scottish, with family living in Scotland. He moved at seventeen, with his parents, and has been here since because that's where his job is.

I suppose, theoretically, he could have moved back at some point, but there are a whole host of personal reasons to boring a complicated to list here for why he didn't including becoming a carer for a younger sibling still in school, young children, jobs, health, blah, blah, blah.

It didn't matter. He was Scottish by birth and a UK citizen internationally. Not a problem.

Now, potentially, it will matter.

And I could live with that, if everyone affected got a say. But they don't.

And thinking about it.

All the industries as have currently got in Scotland we would be able to build back up again in England, like ship building. It would be a huge boom to many industrial towns and cities in England and Wales if we did that

I've changed my mind

Let them go

siiiiiiiigh, the first past the post system that if a candidate has a majority of one, s/he will represent that constituency and therefore will be able to vote/be pressured into voting in government against the wishes of the majority of the people they are supposed to represent. I'm just scared that once Scotland goes, the green and leafy Home Counties brigade will have even more of the pie than they already do.