to wonder what English MNers think of the Scottish referendum?

[OTheHugeManatee]

I'm English. I quite want Scotland to vote Yes. Personally I'm not sure the financial arguments stack up but I think you can argue it either way. I want a Yes vote not because I think Scotland should eff off or anything puerile like that, but because I think we're long overdue a serious constitutional shakeup in the British Isles and a Yes vote might well be the thing to trigger it.

Also I'm quietly (and, I hope non-xenophobically) quite firmly Eurosceptic. One of my main objections to rule from Brussels is the lack of democratic legitimacy: I don't feel that my vote counts for much in deciding who gets into power there. So I can sympathise with Scottish complaints that they feel the Westminster government doesn't represent their views and never really will. Given that I want freedom from Brussels so as to go back to self-determination as a democratic nation, logically I can't object to Scotland wanting the same thing.

But other English MNers seem to feel quite strongly the other way. If you're English, what's your view?

WooWoo I have that same interest WooWoo. I live in Scotland and it's a strange event that's for sure. We may end up living in very interesting times.

Hester - I know, sorry, wasn't at all clear.

The system needs a shake up, and that's not going to happen without something big happening. Like, independent councillors getting elected in Scotland with real power - and, maybe that'd encourage the rUK local guys to step up.

Bi-partisan politics is not working. They are practically uni-partisan.

Seems like a big gamble to get a knock-on effect, though.

I can see some pluses and minuses to both results both for Scotland and for the ongoing UK, I'm very glad I don't have to vote because I have no idea which way I'd vote.

Always feel threads like this stoke up that undercurrent of anti Scottishness on this site.

Not my intention at all! I read the broadsheets and follow UK politics and have noticed that most voices in the main English press are generally anti a Yes vote. I'm not, though I have mixed feelings, but I don't have a say. So I wondered what others who are watching from the sidelines thought or felt about the referendum.

If I wated to be rude about the Scots (I don't) I would e much more direct about it

It's abundantly clear lots of scots can't stand us

Been hearing a lot about bullying from scots to English who live there

Never going to visit a country with that attitude

So adios of that's what they want

So you've never even been to Scotland?

I have lots of English-born friends who are voting Yes - around a dozen are people I know well. I was in Glasgow at the weekend and many of the Women for Indy activists are English-born. Why do you think that is?

"It will be interesting to see how contracts will be distributed when they no longer have to send them over the border."

Yes, wouldn't want to try and spread out jobs and wealth to all areas (generally considered deprived) when we could keep it all for the areas we think are important ( like down south).

An confused by your arguments against Europe. We have a FPTP system. That means that your vote counts for as much in Westminster as it doors it Europe. What is the difference?

If I was Scottish I would rather be a part of a Scotland which is not British but IS a part of Europe than a part of a Britain which is not part of Europe. As an English person, I hope the Scottish such around. I love Scotland. I don't want it to be another country.

If I wated to be rude about the Scots (I don't) I would e much more direct about it

I didn't say the OP (ie, you) did. Simply that that's the way these threads tend to go.

I don't think anyone on here is being anti Scottish

Well, I disagree.

Which isn't surprising really, since those who are guilty of this shit rarely ever seem to realise they're doing it.

i think that we English...play second fiddle in our own country.

Lol. Just lol.

stubbornandstroppy, your post is so horrible and offensive I don't even know where to begin.

I have very mixed feelings about it. On the one hand I think it should be a vote for the whole of the UK since it affects us all. As it stands, 10% of the population gets to decide on what happens to the rest of us which isn't democratic. On that basis I hope they vote no because the status quo is being upset for the sake of the ideals of the few with no concrete plan on how to implement them. If I were Scottish I can't see how you can vote yes when no answers about massive issues like currency. Salmond can go on all he likes about how he would keep the Pound but if he does it without agreement he still under the control of the Bank of England which is apparently the opposite of what he is campaigning for. He can threaten walking away from the debt but that won't give Scotland much credibility in the financial world. They won't be getting a Triple A rating with attitude.

The other thing is that a yes vote is going to cost the Scottish people an absolute pack. The cost of getting independence, setting up their own systems will be astronomical.

On the other hand, it would, in an parallel universe be very interesting to see what would happen if they said yes, in a purely academic sense - something to be observed. I suspect it would be a mess. I don't wish it on them but I don't think it is going to be a landslide for either side so there is going to be a large proportion of the population unhappy regardless of which way the vote goes.

And if there is a yes vote, we will get some of our shipbuilding contracts back, which are much needed down in Portsmouth. Apparently a lot of businesses would move south of the border too so that is all good for the rest of the UK.

Either way, it is all fascinating.

Guybrush - I'm assuming your query about Europe is directed at me? Don't want to derail my own Scotland thread with a discussion about Europe but no, my vote really doesn't count for as much in Brussels as in England, not least because the body that actually makes the laws is not elected at all. The way it works in the EU is basically like it would be if the heads of Britain's different Civil Service departments originated, negotiated and drafted all our laws and the job of MPs was just to ratify them. There's lots more but it's for another thread

I didn't say earlier how I'd vote - if I was in scotland I've vote no.

Mainly because Salmond seems to be saying "trust me, it'll be fine" on lots of issues, the whole "I'm sure EU will let us in straight away without needing to adopt the Euro" seems a bit like we're expected to take him on faith - but since Tony Blair, "trust me" does'nt work for a politician as far as I'm concerned.

Salmond is a lunatic.

As a scottish yes voter, I just want to make it clear (in the nicest possible way)it's nothing to do with English people. We just want our own government. Nobody is saying we want independence because we hate the Welsh, though that would be equally ludicrous. Lots of English (and other nationalities) who live in Scotland are voting yes. In fact there's a flat on my street flying a yes saltire and a st George's cross outside, which I think is fantastic.

Just as an aside (and I know this is a pointless irrelevant anecdote) I was on the BBC sports forum years ago and this British identity was being discussed. I said I had no problem, as did the majority of people I knew, with identifying both as Welsh and British and I had THE most unpleasant answer from a Scot claiming how superior Scotland was to Wales, and he called a tinpot mickey mouse little country no one cared about, compared to the long proud history of the Scots and so on. It was really offensive, and I had to sit on my fingers not to write a tirade about Scotland/Scots back. Luckily I succeeded as I realised that this was not the normal Scottish view, and sure enough along came a few Scots who told him he was a dickhead (not in so many words, because the mods were incredibly overactive on that site).

Unfortunately, Hester, it is people like that who get heard. The average member of the public don't spout forth and vent their prejudices but equally they don't challenge people like that or, at least if they do, they don't get heard as it isn't really a story when people all get on.

I think the Scots should vote yes and if I had a vote then I would vote yes.

However, personally, as an English person, I want them to vote no.

There's clearly a group of Scottish people who want change in the way our country is won (as it is still 'our' country ATM) and I would suggest there is also a group of English, Welsh and Northern Irish people who also want change. My ideal situation would be a no vote and then all those people coming together to vote for/form a party that could bring about such changes.

I would also suggest that many northerners feel just as separated from Westminster as the Scots.

I also think the Scots should vote no as I reckon David Cameron is happy for all those Scottish Labour voters to have no vote at next years election.

Salmond is a lunatic.
No, that's gong too far.
He just has a very large ego. He wants to go down in history as the man who achieved independence for Scotland. What happens after that he doesn't know or really care - if it goes wrong he can always blame the perfidious English for not granting everything in the White Wishlist.

I think the anti UKIP/pro SNP is more about being anti right/pro left rather than being a 'Little Englander/Scot.
There was a time that all the 'alternative' parties on the ballot paper would have been left wing. This is not the case now. As a Scot living in Scotland I hope Independence may quell this tide.

My answer is from my heart and not my head: I hope Scotland will stay in the Union.
I can't pretend to believe or understand the economic arguments, I just hope they vote no.

Jenny, no it has nothing to do with the English specifically but it does have something to do with the British. It isn't only or all about the Scottish.

If as some say, the Scottish put more in the pot than they take out at the moment, then we stand to lose if the Scottish leave the Union. If they are net beneficiaries from the general pot as others believe, then that has a positive impact. It will affect voting patterns and elections in Britain if the Scottish votes no longer count. On all sorts of ways it affects how the top bit of our tiny island interacts with the rest of it. I also suspect it will affect our standing in the world if we can't hold the Union together actually. There aren't many countries on the international scene who think the Union should break up. It isn't all about Scotland at all.

I hope they vote for it as Scotland is a millstone around England's neck. It would also hopefully enthuse independence movements in Wales and Northern Ireland which are similar deadweights.

I hope they vote no and would be sad if Scotland chose to go it alone. I hope the no vote then sets off further discussion on constitutional changes which mean devo max for Scotland and Wales and more devolution for the English regions. The UK is way too centralised and it would benefit from a major shake up.

I fully understand the attraction of voting yes and the strong appeal it has.

But I have real concerns about the impact of the independence on Scotland as I don't think the SNP plans stack up. Salmond et al have made some highly irresponsible statements such as refusing to take on any debt if there's no currency union.

The attitude of some on this thread makes me really and a little bit.