to wonder what English MNers think of the Scottish referendum?

[OTheHugeManatee]

I'm English. I quite want Scotland to vote Yes. Personally I'm not sure the financial arguments stack up but I think you can argue it either way. I want a Yes vote not because I think Scotland should eff off or anything puerile like that, but because I think we're long overdue a serious constitutional shakeup in the British Isles and a Yes vote might well be the thing to trigger it.

Also I'm quietly (and, I hope non-xenophobically) quite firmly Eurosceptic. One of my main objections to rule from Brussels is the lack of democratic legitimacy: I don't feel that my vote counts for much in deciding who gets into power there. So I can sympathise with Scottish complaints that they feel the Westminster government doesn't represent their views and never really will. Given that I want freedom from Brussels so as to go back to self-determination as a democratic nation, logically I can't object to Scotland wanting the same thing.

But other English MNers seem to feel quite strongly the other way. If you're English, what's your view?

It is interesting that indy Scots seem to get angry at the thought of rUK voters wanting a yes vote returned. Sort of like "we don't want you but how dare you not want us?"

I know a couple of posts have been deliberately goading but surely given the indy arguments used, Scots could be more understanding of any backlash, especially as rUk isn't getting an official say.

I would feel sad at the breakup of the union and despite no horse in the race, a bit rejected. I'd also be excited to see what would happen in an independent Scotland. I would wish them well though, and don't like thinking of them and future generations going through hardship.

I think the outcome will be for No - though part of me would love to see what would happen with a Yes vote. My Husband thinks Scotland will be crazy not to vote Yes - he is convinced it is the best for the country and it will thrive. I'm not so sure but part of me thinks it will be a shame not to grab this chance.

I do have a problem if the vote is Yes with a small majority. Would be hard to push forward such a change without a large majority.

I don't want a yes vote purely because I think we'll be stuck with a Conservative government without the Scottish vote.

Is the Queen - the Queen of England or the Queen of Scotland? Is she more the Queen of England than Scotland? Maybe she'll move to Scotland.

You see. I was on the fence. And then I read the whiny posts and think meh. Go.

I'm a Scottish yes voter. I love England, have English family & friends and visit often. It is certainly not an anti-English stance. More a positive stance to govern our own affairs. Everyone I know, voting yes, has accepted it will get worse before it gets better. I think there is a "leap of faith" mentality. We would have two years to sort out the technical bits (of which there are a fair few)
I will be so sad to leave but excited at the same time for the future up here. Yes some industries will leave, some more will grow and expand. Some people will be up in arms and storm off in a huff, some will flood in ready to bolster the changes. In five years time, both within Scotland and the rUK, the dust will have settled and life will just plod on. I will still be proud to have England as our closest neighbours and hope we still have a close relationship and can work together shoulder to shoulder as equals and friends. Maybe sounds idealistic but there you go. I read somewhere the suggestion that London should be declared and independent state (as it pretty much is just now) and the rest of England should govern itself. So who knows; we may open the floodgates and we all become independently run but stand together nations.
to my lovely English MN friends. I

The Queen has many titles, including Queen Elizabeth 11 of England, and Elizabeth, Queen of Scots. These two crowns were joined in 1603, when James VI, King of Scots, inherited the English Crown and also became King James I of England. The current monarch is as much Queen of Scots as Queen of England, neither is senior to the other.

The Union of Crowns happened long before the Union of Parliaments. In fact it's was the Scottish line that "took over" the English line.

That's why in Scotland, King James is always referred to as James I & VI - 1st of England and 6th of Scotland.

Technically Queen Elizabeth is QE II and I as Scotland had never had a Queen Elizabeth before . Or she should have been Queen Elizabeth 1st of a United Kingdom .

Cross posted Oldlady

Oh forgot to say I think it will be a No win regardless. But that's the nature of the beast.

Shame.

I'm English. I spent the happiest years of my life in Scotland. I love the country, I love the people. I would be absolutely saddened by a split.

It will still be there.

Scotland isn't going anywhere - everyone can still visit.

Which isn't technically true, as we are one country. I get the point that is being made but it just makes me feel a bit... sad. Sad that at least parts of the Scottish population already see Scotland as a totally separate country.

What are you saying here? That England, Scotland, Wales and NI are all one country and each individual part is simply a region (or whatever) thereof?

I don't know any Scots, even the rabid "Just say naw"-ers who believe that the UK is just "one country". We aren't. That is not how Scots see themselves. We are Scottish. Just like Spaniards are Spanish and European. They didn't suddenly stop being Spanish just because Spain joined the EU.

Oh forgot to say I think it will be a No win regardless.

Not so sure. The polls suggest its very close.

My FB Aye pals outnumber the Naw voters about 10 to 1.

I started off being very sympathetic towards the Yes voters but as this whole thing has progressed, the amount of anti-English vitriol I have seen online and heard in the media has really made me think we should just let them get on with it and good riddance.

But then, as a Londoner I'm so bloody sick of hearing people bash the city I love that I wish we could secede and form our own republic. So if the Scots can have a referendum, I think Londoners should get one too!

Oh god idea. Fuck off London.

Good. Sigh.

I love London (biased as that's where DP is from and my mum). I think something like half of London voted Labour, which amounts to the population of Scotland roughly. And I also do get kind of sick of people saying London-centric policies. Over 1 in 4 (28% more accurately) people in London are in poverty, don't think people can say WM only looks after London/SE.

TBH I think many English probably do see it as one country - England and that the Queen is English (as per comments here) and the Government is English (also heard folk moaning when they had Scottish Pm's running their government). So it is England and then the likes of regions like Yorkshire, Scotland, Wales etc.

It's unconscious but it does irk - the default to England, that Britain is really England.

I know this sounds like an anti English rant but I have lived in England a long time, I love England, my children were born here and they can consider themselves whichever nationality they identify most with, my friends are English. But living here, this is honestly how I see the attitude generally of English in the south. It's unconscious and no harm is meant but it lies beneath the surface. When you are the bigger/ major power or player I guess this is inevitable to a degree.

These are very good points, Dalek.

I have no idea how anyone who's not a banker manages to pay rent/mortgage in London. Cost of living is ludicrous. How do all the folk who work for a minimum wage survive?

I'm wondering whether constitutional reform at WM could be brought about just by the fact that the referendum vote is so close - I mean, assuming the "naw" goes through.

Ginny - I feel the same. I'm the first generation of my family to be born in England, my dad is Irish and my mum is Scottish. I just feel sad as I've always felt "British" over "English."

I hope they go.