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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Overzealous border control

88 replies

fairlyliquid · 29/08/2014 13:34

We came back from holiday last week and I went up to the border control counter with DS (4) and DN who is nearly 17 and has lived with us for 3 years. The agent asked me whether he was my child because he has a different surname, so I explained he was my nephew. She wanted to know whether he was traveling with his parents and I said no, he was traveling with us. So she asked where his parents where and I had to say, they are deceased, he lives with us. So then she asked for our legal guardianship documents, which we don't have. I was really embarrassed as was DN as we don't talk about his parents (don't blame me for this - it was all very deeply buried when I came into the picture 3 years ago). He is over 6 foot tall and quite able to stand up for himself.

She advised me to travel with proper documents next time. AIBU to think this is a bit strange, seeing as he could have gone through on his own without problem?

OP posts:
ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 29/08/2014 13:43

Its not strange, its quite usual. You are expected to have the appropriate documentation if you are travelling with a minor. DH has a letter from me stating I consent for him to be travelling with the DC. I also had to give formal written consent to the consulate before they were added to his home country passport.

The DC and I don't have the same surname so if I am travelling alone with them I would need to bring proof that I was their mother.

Most of the time it isn't needed but its a measure intended to deal with issues such as child abduction.

Trickydecision · 29/08/2014 13:52

Out of interest, where was your holiday? We are currently in Mexico, with our DS and his two small children (9 and 10). I read in Thomas Cook's small print that children travelling to Mexico with just one parent needed written permission from the mother, regardless of parental responsibility.

I downloaded a permission form which the kids' DM has signed, no one queried us on the way out, but we have heard that the Mexican authorities check departing travellers quite thoroughly. So we are hoping that we will not encounter any problems.

As it happens our DGCS are of mixed race and after two weeks in the sun, DGS could easily pass for a local; we do not want to be arrested for child smuggling.

googoodolly · 29/08/2014 13:59

You need to have proof of guardianship or written permission from their parents to take an minor in/out of the country.

It's normal.

Hissy · 29/08/2014 14:23

My DS has a different surname to mine.

Funny how I live here and when I go on holiday (i.e. LEAVING the country) they NEVER ask if I have permission to travel, only when I come BACK home...

I appreciate it could be that I am smuggling him IN to the country for nefarious purposes, but if the concern is that i'm taking him anywhere, why don't Passport Control on the way OUT ask me if I have the OK from all concerned?

redexpat · 29/08/2014 14:25

Im surprised you didnt know about this. It pops up regularly on mn. mn even has a template permission letter you can download.

PourquoiTuGachesTaVie · 29/08/2014 14:30

When dh and I were 16 & 17 we went away on holiday with a friend of his mum. She had no parental/legal guardianship for either of us, we didn't take any paperwork to say she was allowed to take us anywhere and no-one asked.

I wonder if the country you are travelling to makes a difference?

OwlCapone · 29/08/2014 14:34

I would happily deal with a few minutes of inconvenience if it helped prevent children being trafficked or abducted.

PourquoiTuGachesTaVie · 29/08/2014 14:38

But the OPs nephew is 16.

I'd be interested to know if someone should have asked actually as I didn't have permission to go abroad (never even thought to ask because I was 16 and living on my own).

WeAreEternal · 29/08/2014 14:43

While we are discussing this I have a question.

If there is no father and the DC had the mothers surname is she likely to be questioned?

I have a friend who is taking her DD (8) on holiday abroad for the first time in a few months and this thread has made me think about her.
There is no father on the BC or in the picture, never has been. Her DD has her surname and it's just the two of them.
Is she likely to be asked if she had permission to take her DD?
Will they be fine if she just tells them that her DD doesn't have a father?

Thanks.

Sallyingforth · 29/08/2014 14:46

I would happily deal with a few minutes of inconvenience if it helped prevent children being trafficked or abducted.

^ This, about 1000%

Original poster
fairlyliquid · 29/08/2014 14:47

I've often been asked about DS when I've been traveling on my own with him, before we got married, because our names are different. This is as you all say completely normal and I actually support it although as hissy says it would make more sense on the outward journey.

BUT DN is nearly 17 and a good foot taller than me. He may technically be a minor but he's big enough to travel on his own. He wouldn't need any paperwork other than his valid passport to do that.

OP posts:
OwlCapone · 29/08/2014 14:49

But the OPs nephew is 16.

And?

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 29/08/2014 14:49

WeAre
If the parents weren't married and father isn't on the Birth Certificate then, from memory, he doesn't automatically have Parental Responsibility consequently as she is the only person with PR she can travel without a problem. I would just take a copy of her DD's birth certificate with her so if anyone does question it she can show that the father doesn't appear on the BC.

Alligatorpie · 29/08/2014 14:53

I agree. I regularly travel with my dds who have a different surname (and are a different nationality to me), but I get a letter from my husband saying they have his permission to travel. They are 8 and 2. I wouldn't think to take a letter if they were 16.

WD41 · 29/08/2014 14:54

YANBU

As you say, at 17 he could travel alone & without parental permission anyway, so who you are in relation to him is entirely irrelevant.

Original poster
fairlyliquid · 29/08/2014 14:57

We actually have no paperwork for him - DH is within the degree of sanguinity for him to be able to live with us without any need for a guardianship order.

I think it is very relevant that he is 16 and can speak for himself. When DS was tiny I was stopped but now not so much as he's always clinging to me and clearly mine.

The agent didn't do that very obvious thing of asking him if he was traveling freely or being forcibly smuggled out of Provence - she only spoke to me and I was able to convince her just by saying I was his guardian, so my feeling is that she was not rigorous enough to prevent a smuggling anyway.

OP posts:
PourquoiTuGachesTaVie · 29/08/2014 14:57

And like I said... I was living on my own at 16 and no-one ever asked me if I had parental permission to travel. If he was 15 I could understand it but not at 16.

LiveAndLetDie · 29/08/2014 15:10

But surely his age is a factor here, he's practically an adult. And actually quite a few 16/17 year olds live away from home as adults. I left home at 16 and travelled with DH abroad. I was never asked about parental permission (and would have been mightily pissed off if I had). DSD has been going abroad with her friends since she was 16 and none of them (all the same age) have been asked about parental permission. I can understand being asked about a child, but surely a 16/17 year old is an adult in almost every way.

3littlefrogs · 29/08/2014 15:15

You shouldn't have been travelling without the necessary paperwork TBH.
Border control can't win - they are either being too strict or not strict enough.

However, in Europe it is possible to travel unaccompanied if over 16, so unless you were outside Europe it does seem strange.

bunnyfrance · 29/08/2014 15:21

At what age is a minor allowed to travel unaccompanied? I went abroad alone at 16, no problems. OP, your nephew should have been able to get through border control by himself, as if he were travelling alone.

SuburbanRhonda · 29/08/2014 15:25

I don't think it's about whether a few minutes is worth it to avoid a child being abducted.

I think it's about the fact that these rules don't seem to be widely known about. My DCs have DH's surname. I frequently travelled to and from the UK with them but without him when we lived abroad. I would never have imagined I would need a letter of permission from him to do so and thankfully I was never asked.

Of course, had I known, I would have travelled with the correct document ion. But I didn't know.

Original poster
fairlyliquid · 29/08/2014 15:28

3littlefrogs there isn't any paperwork apart from his passport, which we have and which required all the necessary paperwork to obtain, including an interview.

I support border control (although my job touches on immigration and believe me I could tell some dreadful stories about how they behave) but their measures were in my opinion over-zealous since DN is over 16 and also ineffective since she took my word for it that I am his guardian.

I wouldn't normally go through with him. DH was ahead of us and I went up with DS and DN walked up with me, holding his own passport.

OP posts:
Coffeethrowtrampbitch · 29/08/2014 15:32

I travelled to Spain with now dh and pil when I was 17, on my first foreign holiday, 17 years ago. No one queried it at all even though I flew from an English airport and would have been classed as a minor, so I suppose they take more care now, although I'm glad they didn't then as I only had my passport and no other documents. Also, dh would never have let me forget about it, his stepmum made jokes about getting me a free child places as it was!

DrankSangriaInThePark · 29/08/2014 15:41

So my niece, aged 14, could just come and live with me with no paperwork or court involvement?
Blimey. That doesn't seem right at all. (Not saying your situation is suspect fairyliquid, just that how on earth are you expected to provide docs to one authority that other authorities don't think you need!)

It is standard now though for minors travelling with only one parent/ someone other than parents to be asked parental permission. Nothing to do with surnames (have checked this with border agency mates, although as families become ever more diverse the likelihood of people being stopped who ALSO have different surnames increases.

DrankSangriaInThePark · 29/08/2014 15:43

Another anomaly for you....I took a group of teenagers (aged 14) abroad this summer. Also took dd.
Only asked for consent for my own child, not the ones that weren't even mine!