Overzealous border control

[fairlyliquid]

We came back from holiday last week and I went up to the border control counter with DS (4) and DN who is nearly 17 and has lived with us for 3 years. The agent asked me whether he was my child because he has a different surname, so I explained he was my nephew. She wanted to know whether he was traveling with his parents and I said no, he was traveling with us. So she asked where his parents where and I had to say, they are deceased, he lives with us. So then she asked for our legal guardianship documents, which we don't have. I was really embarrassed as was DN as we don't talk about his parents (don't blame me for this - it was all very deeply buried when I came into the picture 3 years ago). He is over 6 foot tall and quite able to stand up for himself.

She advised me to travel with proper documents next time. AIBU to think this is a bit strange, seeing as he could have gone through on his own without problem?

You need to have proof of guardianship or written permission from their parents to take an minor in/out of the country.

No you don't. They can ask for all sorts,but there is no actual legal requirement for you to carry such paperwork.

I was asked to produce DS birth cert last week when we flew back.

I also have a signed declaration from the Ex that I can take ds whereever I like

The whole thing makes no sense.

I have been questioned upon returning to the UK with my dc who have different surnames, but if they don't even have a human being checking passports on the way out, it will do nothing to help with child abduction.

I wouldn't mind showing documents on the way out because there would be a reason for it, but if I'm not questioned upon entering any other country, and I'm not questioned on the way out of my own, it all seems like a pointless jobs worthy wast of time.

I am surprised that they didn't speak to your DN directly tbh, especially at his age.

12y DD went on holiday with grandparents this summer. Security asked her on the way back home. She was asked directly who she was travelling with and why. My dad did tell them he had a note of permission from me and her dad.

Will DD (17) be OK coming back from Spain on her own?

I'm panicking a bit now

Provided there is no court order in place, there is no legal requirement for a parent travelling with their child to provide permission from the other parent. And the downloadable forms, frankly, are not worth the paper they are written on. A parent abducting their own child would have no problems filling in the form with their partner's details and providing a mobile number to be answered by an accomplice. And as previous posters have observed there is something completely illogical in UKBA's tendency to ask questions of returning parents but not to challenge them when they are leaving the country. My youngest has travelled alone through Heathrow from when she was 12 but has never once been challenged.
I am all in favour of everyone doing all they can to reduce the incidence of child abduction. But what is needed is a clear policy backed by legislation and applied on exit; not arbitary, ineffective questioning on re-entry.

I came back from the USA and went to immigration with my children. They asked if they were mine after checking the passports. They are 21 and nearly 19. I was astonished.

I'm a nanny- I frequently travel with my charges alone and even though I have all the proper documents I've never been asked for them!

I got asked when travelling with my one year old DD. We have the same surname. I had to explain my husband had died and was asked to show his death certificate (which I travel with for this reason). It was upsetting but the border control person was polite and sympathetic and I completely understand why they question it. If it stops one child being smuggled out for whatever reason then I'm all for it.

It is normal. I have kept my maiden name and I try to remember to bring my marriage certificate when I travel with my kids as I usually get asked for proof that I am the mother (and showing stretch marks isn't proof enough apparently).
When children travel with my parents we write a letter to take with them granting grandparents guardianship and authority to take children abroad with photocopies of our passports.
It annoys me but I understand the need for this.

have people missed his age? Airlines take minors from age 13/14 (without paperwork) so why would border control question him. Just go through singly next time OP, we always do.

We keep being questioned by immigration officers, they've asked my dd2 when my husband's birthday is, what my son's middle name is etc. We all have the same surname, the DCs look similar and like us, I assume we are used for box ticking purposes. My teenage DS is often extra screened when we go through security, I assume this is because he is blond & blue eyed so they can pretend they don't racially screen.

I was asked questions by both immigration and customs coming into the UK in June. My DD was also asked why she was coming to the UK etc, we live overseas. She just thought the lady was chatting but i don't think so. My DD is mixed race and has her Dad's surname.

musical that's even worse!

Exactly, Brabra my AIBU is about his age. Completely different and normal for a child.

YANBU. I travelled to California on my own when I was 16 and had no problems (apart from the US border control accused me of being a drug smuggler before they let me in!), so I don't know why you would need to prove you were guardian of a 17 year old.

Like all border control, the questions are something that starts a conversation, how the individual responds to the questions is what triggers further investigation. In most cases there's nothing more to it, it is pretty odd with a 17yr old, and even more with an over 18 of course!

The pointlessness of doing it "when returning" point on the thread is kind of odd, you could be abducting the child from the country you came from... Air borders are just about the only place you have to deal with border control if you really don't want to, so it's an efficient place to put the checks, as otherwise it will be much more expensive to find someone.

We have come back through Heathrow twice thus summer, both on European flights, as a family of 4 neither time did we go through passport control together. DD17, just breezes through, as do the 2 adults, only DD15 gets asked who she is travelling with and to explain where they are.

So what happens if (in my case) you have a child with a different surname to you but the father has fucked off disappeared and you have no way of contacting him?

We haven't left the country yet but this is a worry.

It's not just about parental child abduction.

Limited IT skills and a knackered iPad mean that I can't provide a link, but according to Unseenuk.org 2,255 victims of trafficking were uncovered in 2012 and 549 of those victims were children. I would make an (educated) guess that some of those adults and children claimed to be travelling with family members. Having a British passport, or blonde hair and blue eyes, or being a 6ft eighteen year old doesn't make them exempt from being trafficked.

Personally, if just one child or adult is saved from trafficking by an over zealous immigration officer, then I'm all for giving up an extra three minutes of my time being asked about who I'm travelling with.

We've taken a teenaged friend of dd's away skiing with us for the last three years. We always take relevant documents but it so happens we've never been questioned. Doesn't mean we won't next time though so I shall continue to do so.

Provided there is no court order in place, there is no legal requirement for a parent travelling with their child to provide permission from the other parent

I'm sorry Patricia but you are wrong. It is a criminal offence (child abduction) for a parent to take their child out of the country unless they have the consent of everyone with PR or an appropriate court order. The authorities are entirely within their rights to check that no crime is being committed.

I don't understand how having a bit of paper giving permission helps prove anything. If I wanted to abduct a child, I'm sure it would be no trouble to find a form on line, or write a letter and sign it. How does that prove anything? I'd have thought it would be body language, that would be what would give away people being trafficked, rather than the lack of easily faked bits of paper.

Surrey people being trafficked into this country aren't going to have legally verifiable British passports?

I had an unpleasant experience returning back to Heathrow with my two children a couple of years ago.

I know how these things work, so am always pleasant and polite. I hate to think how it would have turned out if I'd been the opposite.

'Who is this woman?' barked the immigration official at my (then) 6 year old daughter (whilst completely ignoring my then 7 year old son).

'It's my mummy', she said.

'Your mother? And is your mother nice to you?', the twat asked.

I mean, WTF? WT ABSOLUTE F has that got to do with anything? What if I'd just told one of them off and she'd replied 'no'? What would have happened then? As it was she went 'ummm, yes'. He then asked me 'where's the father?'

'I have no idea, perhaps with his new wife?', I replied. He glared at me for a few minutes while we just stood there and then (reluctantly it seemed) waved us through.

I was completely fuming about his rudeness and attitude and the completely inappropriate question to my daugher. I really really really wish I had demanded to see his superior and complained then and there. As it was I stopped a police officer when I was through to baggage reclaim and asked him what to do. He advised to complain via the Immigration Service website. I did. Nothing.

I have full parental responsibility for my children. My ex is an idiot who is virtually off the scene. I will be buggered if I am going to ask his PERMISSION to do anything with the children. He wouldn't care what I did but certainly wouldn't put the effort in to signing any letter saying so. So I will carry on as I do and if they stop us on the way in to the UK I will be ready for them.

On the occasion above, I had the same surname as my children yet was stopped. I have now reverted to my maiden name and haven't had the same questioning. Where is the sense in that? My ex has remarried and his new wife has taken his surname and has the same forename as me bar one letter. Yet they could come and go as they please then without anyone batting an eyelid or subjecting them to rude questions? It is totally unequal, and almost a discrimination against women.

Woo British passport holders can be, have been and are trafficked. Probably not to the same extent as some other countries, but it does happen.

You also have to take into account that some family groups have different nationalities. Is someone a loving family member bringing a niece or nephew over to stay with them for a holiday, or will that child end up another statistic?

Families from other countries are asked similar questions. It's not just British travellers. I don't think it came across particularly clearly in my post, but my point is that British passport holders can't automatically be excluded from being asked those questions, just by virtue of the colour of their passport.