To think Kate Bush is rubbish?

[iK8]

Shrieking, arm flapping and mincing.

What am I missing? I'm sure she's a lovely woman but good lawd I cannot see the appeal.

That's hardly surprising Sicaq - hardly party music and I rather doubt she would claim that was her forte either !

Haunted thanks for the Too Much Too Young reference, that'll keep me happy for the day!

Ok, maybe 'intellectual' was the wrong word. KB fans are all a bit arty & pretentious.

Josh, good luck with the article :-)

She was basically soft porn for all the teenage boys who are now 40+ men. Every bloke I ever went out with had a thing for KB with her pouty arm waving in a diaphanous dress.

Exactly Haunted! ... and I suppose that's one reason I found her irritating in the 80s when I was developing my rampant feminist views. Somehow it doesn't sit quite right with all the stuff about her being a feminist hero, not doing what's expected of her by the music industry etc etc. I can see that musically, but the poutiness and floaty flapping seem to counteract it. Maybe it wasn't meant to come across as man-pleasing simpering, but it certainly did back then.

I don't get why she's a feminist icon?

Well earlier on this thread there is a lot of reference to her leading the way as a woman in the music industry, not being told what to do, shunning stereotypes. First woman to have a no. 1 with her own song, influential etc.

Not all feminists are shaven-headed,dungaree-wearing bull dogs munching on wasps

Yes, I know. I'm not. But there is a difference between looking feminine (if that's your bag), and doing that kind of porno pouty face that looks as if it is designed to appeal to men.

Now I defend any woman's right to do a porno pouty face, all I said is that it doesn't scream "feminist" to me. There are loads of musicians out there doing it, obviously. It's just that they don't tend to be held up as women flying in the face of what the music industry expects.

KB is an interesting conundrum and as I've said, maybe she wasn't aiming for that.

What a person chooses to wear or how they dance does not make them a feminist.
I find this "man pleasing simpering" pretty offensive.

I am a feminist. If I want to wear a fucking tutu and prance up the north and south end of my street I bloody will.
She wrote and made the music she wanted to make, with little regard for how it would be received. Not to be "soft porn" for 80s boys

Also not sure I have seen KB do a "porno pouty face"

You have to be fairly intelligent to get her
Absolute nonsense and snobbery at it's worse.

Aaargh no it's not about whether you wear a tutu, that was not my point!

Man-pleasing simpering, via pouty porno face, is a thing. It's a thing female pop stars are often seen to do, much like female page 3 models, presumably because they are told, or have somehow got the message, that that is what's required. To me, if you are a feminist you would resist that rather than do it in spades.

Now, as I have said, KB's style when I was young looked like that to me. I have said I could be wrong and maybe it wasn't intentional. But I was trying to explain why the feminist accolades don't sit right with me.

I look at PJ Harvey, Bjork, Patti Smith, I see women in music who actively reject that expectation. KB isn't one of them.

I love PJ.

amert Wed 27-Aug-14 23:09:55

I hope that's not random. I'm sure somebody mentioned Peter Gabriel and paired him with liking Kate Bush.

Yep! I mentioned they did a duet together

I also mentioned liking both Kate Bush and Ronan from Boyzone in the same breath and nobody blinked...

I am now convinced there are more closet Ronan-Lovers on this board then posters are owning up to. :))

I can understand how you could see Bjork rejects the typical male pleasing stereotype...I am especially thinking of her dead swan dress. Chuckle.

But PJ's look above on the album cover would be a pretty typical look...so how is she actively rejecting how she is expected to look etc....she looks a little bit pouty to me...
No less made up or less pouty then K.B. would be.

I know nothing of her btw but just upon first glance at the cover it looks like she is dressed to please a male audience....or did I miss something?

'see'

should be 'Say'

Have to agree that there is pouty porno face going on in the video for The Man with the Child in his Eyes. And a bodysuit that is intended to make her look naked! And lots of gyrating against a double bass in Babooshka. Bush definitely played up to her sexuality in her earlier days at least.

I don't think Kate Bush appealed to boys particularly. I seem to remember Debbie Harry was more popular in this respect ,and I'm sure there were others too.She was pretty, yes. What was she supposed to do, wear a bhurkha?

PJ looks great.
She could never be described as 'man pleasing' or 'simpering'.
I posted that just to show it is possible to be an innovative, original musician AND feminist whilst conforming to some of the conventions of popular culture.

I don't think that she 'played up' to her sexuality.
I do think that she expressed her sexuality.

I agree thelma .I personally would never have put 'Kate Bush' and 'porno' in the same sentence. Only on Mumsnet.

I'm assuming the PJ cover is an ironic statement?

She doesn't seem the type to play the corporate game.

OK I'm sorry if "man-pleasing simpering" has caused offence.

I don't think KB should wear a burka! As I've said, she has every right to pout, gyrate, express/exploit her sexuality, whatever and however you want to see it. It's very normal and after all plenty of male pop stars base their appeal on sexual attractiveness.

All I said was, that's something that I find irritating and that for me doesn't sit right with the feminist role model concept. Not that she shouldn't do it.

I definitely, definitely do think that was a big part of her appeal though. Like Haunted, every teenage boy/young man I knew in the 80s had a poster of her pouting on the wall and had a massive thing for her. And it wasn't about her music IIRC! I remember many hours of listening to boyfriends' Jimi Hendrix and the Cure etc., while being pouted over by the Kate Bush poster.

The reviews for her first shows are shite, and it seems fans are asking for their money back. YANBU and, it seems, many more out there agree with you.

Really? Every review I've read has been five stars. Where do you get your music news- Smash Hits?