in thinking breastfeeding needn't mean martyring yourself?

[kentishgirl]

Hi - sorry to start yet another bf thread, and I realise this might be contentious, but so many of the bf threads on here make me look like . I realise I'm probably a bit out of date with current thinking on all this, but bf sounds like so much hard work these days...and a little bit of me thinks some bf mums kind of enjoy being a martyr and it's competitive about how hard and such a sacrifice etc etc. This is not about mums who find it physically difficult or impossible to bf.

I bf in the 80s for 11 months. Babe had the odd bottle of formula if I wasn't around.

What puzzles me a bit is this stuff, that I read about on here a lot. Is this the reality now of bfing for everyone/most mums, or is this a minority who just talk about it a lot?

Cluster feeding - having a baby whacked on to you nearly non stop for weeks. Er...this wasn't 'a thing' when I bf. Sometimes babies were hungrier than other times. But no one sat there constantly bfing. Feeding on demand was a thing - but flexibly and not to the exclusion of being able to live a normal life. It just meant it wasn't feeding strictly to the clock. You expected to feed roughly every 2/3 hours within a couple of weeks once feeding was established.

If a baby cried, then it wasn't assumed to be hunger. You'd think 'well I only fed him half an hour ago', check nappy, play, distract, give water, is baby tired etc. It was accepted that there are times that babies just plain old cry. It's an easy solution to pop them on the breast, but it wasn't seen as their really needing a feed.

Longer and bigger bfs - it sounds like babies are on and off the breast all the time for a few mouthfuls these days. We used to do a good feed, if baby started nodding off or losing interest, you'd tap their cheek/stimulate them to get them feeding again. So you'd have a more 'normal' spacing between feeds, they didn't on the whole get hungry again a short time later.

Is it just me, or just the threads I read, that make it sound like every time a bf baby squeaks these days it's straight on to the breast, and there are women who literally have no life of their own or time of their own for months on end, because of this? And isn't this awfully off-putting to new mums about starting to breastfeed?

I know more mums start breastfeeding these days, and that's great. But so many drop out and switch to formula instead, whereas I think in the past, a higher proportion of those who started breastfeeding, continued with it. Is the new 'baby led' attitude to bf a bit of a double edged sword because of this? More try, but it's harder, so more have to give up?

I never experienced cluster feeding but mine had a dummy so perhaps less comfort sucking? Growth spurts bloody awful though as they seem to go to hourly feeding which is grim. Did feel a bit matryed as it was bloody hard work to start and you can't share the feeding load and mine never slept through until 6 month plus when food was introduced (and a sneaky bottle of formula)

"Cariads There are many reasons why breastfeeding is a lot harder for women today."

But some reasons it's easier, namely longer maternity leave, smaller families, more expert help.

Don't forget, this is the generation of mothers who made 'The Contented Little Baby' the biggest selling baby manual of our time. A book that promises to make your baby behave in a way which is predictable and convenient and controllable.

Lots of modern women clearly want that.

And formula feeding makes it easier.

And formula feeding makes it easier.
It depends on the person totally. Sometimes yes, sometimes no. I had a horrendous start to breastfeeding - FF would definitely have been easier at that point. Luckily, the problems resolved - BF was infinitely easier than FF was, overall, for me. I know FF would've been way more work and harder for me, even if someone else was doing 50% of it - other people's mileage may vary!

MsAnthropic - I wouldn't have coped with ff because I didn't ever feed to a schedule. I breastfed round the clock, sometimes very frequently (except when I was at work) even when my babies were fully onto solids.

All the mums I know who ff fed to a schedule, except some feed on demand for the first few weeks.

I think it's often more a case of babies falling into a routine than mums feeding on a schedule tbh.

Pros and cons to both I guess. BF - I was tired, had no freedom at the start, had to do it all myself including night feeds, wore horrible bras, couldn't exactly wear what I wanted - but I never ran out, had to wait, had to pay, had to sterilise, in the night just popped baby on straight away all snuggled in bed. Was also great as we travelled a lot so no worries.

So hard at the start but perhaps easier in the end.

DD is 4mo and I haven't fed to schedule. I feed when she shows the signs of hunger - she seems to have fallen into a routine of every 3-4 hours. If she wants it before or doesn't want it till later, I take her cues.

I've only just found this and I completly don't think the op is unreasonable.

My oldest is only 15 but I didn't know it was supposed to be so complicated to bf. I chose to because it's free and we didn't have much money, it's portable, and my mum always said it was much better for the baby.

Then I got on with it. I didn't know I was supposed to do x y and z, that I should be sat on the couch with th baby doing little or nothing else. I nev analysed it, I never thought about it, I never considered that I should be maturing myself at all. I fed her, changed her, and got on ?ith it.

I dread to think what a wreck I would have been had I "known" about cluster feeding, comfort feeding, not being able to leave the baby alone for months( I was out for dinner with DH when dd1 was 6 weeks old, gave her a feed, left her with mil, had a nice meal out, came home and gave her another feed).

I don't think any of this actually helps with bfing.

Some of the stuff on this thread too - giving a baby under 6 months water is dangerous?

Not according to the nhs.

I wanted to feed my baby, not act as a giant dummy. And I did that and I did it well. My bfing was just as good as any of yours. And my expressed feeding with dd2 was just as good as well.

It hurts enough getting started without making it into 24 hour torture.

Ah yes the contented little baby. My friend had one of these who is now a toddler and still very contented. The mother is immaculate, her house is like a Bellway showhome, always was. Toddler is happy, hitting all his milestones, loved, warm etc. She went back to work after maternity with no issues. It works for her ..or them i should say!!

It's a million miles from how i do things. I co slept, breastfed, watched netflix and pulled all nighters (with plenty of chocolatey supplies), cluster fed, never cleaned or tidied, had my mum come help more than my other friends' mums did, didn't go back to work. My toddler is happy, loved, warm etc. It works for us!!

I don't know where i'm going with this really...

Although OP when my mum breastfed me (in the 80s) she has said that it was very much a feed, sleep for 3 hours, feed, sleep for three hours type affair. She doesn't remember "making such a song and dance about it" like me. Her words not mine!!

I think it's just your perception.

The b/f boards are full of supportive threads for overtired women with bleeding nipples (often feeling scared and vulnerable). In that context 'my nipples bled too' is not being a martyr, it's just showing solidarity.

When you finish breastfeeding it's generally of an older child, so a mother's enduring memories (yours?) may be of those later feeds which were likely well spaced out and much quicker.

A newborn feeds for about 40 minutes every 2 hours. This has not changed- it's just the last time you breastfed it wasn't a newborn.

It's great that you don't remember b/f as a painful ordeal but for many women, in the early days it really is!

I think my 6 month old has pretty much put himself in a Gina Ford routine Except it's her routine for 2 week olds, but never mind...

kentishgirl : you say "Is it just me, or just the threads I read, that make it sound like every time a bf baby squeaks these days it's straight on to the breast, and there are women who literally have no life of their own or time of their own for months on end, because of this?"

It's just you, sorry....and you are overly influenced I think by the threads on here. People are right to point out that mumsnet boards are a release for women who want to reach out and share the negatives of early parenting, and to see support. Plenty of normal, happy, relaxed breastfeeding goes on every day, quietly and problem-free :)

Babies don't usually suck the life and freedom out of mothers' lives in the way you imply.

" But so many drop out and switch to formula instead, whereas I think in the past, a higher proportion of those who started breastfeeding, continued with it."

Not true, sorry. More women start bf now compared to the 80s, and more women stay with it.

They don't recommend giving water as it can interrupt supply and it isn't necessary when you are bfing. It's not a "must not" , it's a "not needed".

But to take that and then suggest its DANGEROUS is just ridiculous. And it's that kind of mentality that really doesn't help anyone.

If a concerned bfing mother gives a baby a small drink of boiled water on a very warm day, it's not likely to end the bfing or harm the baby. It might make things a tiny bit more difficult for some. That's it.

hollie my son did the same by 10 months. Weird. He puts himself to bed now. He says "i'm tired" and goes into his room and shuts the door. Wtf.

The thing that strikes me is people not wanting to be a dummy/used as a comforter.

That's back to front.

A dummy is a substitute for the breast. The breast is not a substitute for the dummy.

I have and am BFing past a year with my two. I wouldn't consider that I've martyred myself to BFing in that it's compromised my choices. There's been a couple of nights out that I've passed by, but I couldn't have drunk alcohol with driving anyway, so BFing had little effect on that. They've both been bottle refusers and have opted to abstain rather than accepting anything other than milk from source. I found that worrying at times with DS1, but accepted it with DS2, and had enough confidence in him and my supply to go away on a few weekends without him. I've found they've been out of sight, out of mind and will stretch feeding times further in my absence, and much of the time, I've been able to carry on with normal activities between feeds or with them in tow. The spontaneity of having milk on tap is a great bonus, my plans aren't affected by availability of milk. I mastered the art of feeding on the move in slings which helped when out and about. DS2 is an incredibly happy, jolly baby. On the rare occasions when he cries, milk usually resolves the issue. A couple of weeks ago, he had a horrid fall, but a feed soothed him through the brunt of it. He's a very sociable, confident, independent soul and no one who knows him could possibly make "rod for your own back" comments about him being dependent on me.

It's not been plain sailing all the way, and there's been times when I've wondered if I'm ploughing on for the right reasons, but the simplicity and pleasure of the good times have helped me ride those out. My personal decisions have also been emotionally affected by DS1's CMPA. When I've been exhausted in the early days, the ability to allow self service and go back to sleep was very useful. Had I have FFed, I would still have done the night feeds anyway as that's most practical for our situation.

Parenting the baby/toddler stage involves some compromise and sacrifice anyway, but I think BF has reduced rather than increased that effect. For the early days of establishing feeding, it is demanding, but some of the issue there is unrealistic expectations of bouncing back to normal. Both my births had tough recoveries, and the time spent sitting feeding baby was a healthy way to spend the time recovering rather getting tempted into more strenuous activity.

My breast was a comforter. If it stopped my baby crying, on it went. One baby was draining, the other one was easy peasy. Both BF.

I think YABU a bit, but not for the reasons some others think.

I'm exclusively breastfeeding my daughter (first baby, 7 weeks now). I've been completely baby-led, on-demand, with cluster-feeding, popping her on the boob as soon as she squeaks, etc., etc. I wasn't doing it because I want to be a martyr, I was doing so because I was basically told to in antenatal classes, by midwives and lactation consultants on the postnatal ward, by health visitors and community midwives. As I've gotten more confident in myself as a mother I've started to develop more boundaries (i.e. "No, little lady, you can't suck my nipples raw for 5 hours"). I think a lot of women aren't trying to be martyrs, they're trying to be good mothers and breastfeed "properly" - i.e. the way the NHS tells them to. The messages they're getting is that you have to completely martyr themselves in order to breastfeed. For example, I asked my health visitor last week what I could do about these hour-long feeds my daughter is fond of. She didn't seem to understand the question. "Oh, that's perfectly normal!" she said. "Are you uncomfortable?" And then she wanted to talk to me about different positionings that would allow me to breastfeed for hours. I was like "I'm not uncomfortable, I'm bloody BORED!"

But so many drop out and switch to formula instead, whereas I think in the past, a higher proportion of those who started breastfeeding, continued with it.

It would be interesting to see if drop-out rates have climbed in recent years. There's this push to breastfeed "perfectly". There's very little support, I think, for women who want to mix-feed, or supplement, or switch to formula before a certain point. I had to literally hide my nipple shields from the lactation consultants and midwives when I was in hospital because nipple shields aren't kosher at the moment. I think a lot of women get the message that you have to breastfeed perfectly or not at all. They don't' get support for, say, keeping their supply up whilst supplementing and then end up exclusively formula-feeding.

I get what you're trying to say, i.e. that breastfeeding seems to get a lot of bad press on here. But it does seem to be easily explained away for the reasons everyone has already covered.

The existence of the Internet, and the fact that people mostly turn to the Internet when they have a problem that needs solving.

So what you're seeing on here is in no way a reflection of reality.

Having said that, I did find establishing breastfeeding very tough, with DC1 anyway. I persevered, but of course the end result of that was that it was me doing all the night time feeds. Which again, I found hideously overwhelming. I also had no support from the older generation (my Mum had died several years earlier, and my Dad and PILs loved in another country). That undoubtedly makes a big difference in how well you cope. I missed my Mum dreadfully at the time, would've loved to ask her advice, and just have her physical support from her, too.

Once b/feeding was established, and once the DC started sleeping thoughh the night (not until 7 and 9 months respectively), it really came into its own.

I'm glad I persevered. But I wouldn't have any more kids, purely from the perceptive of how hard I found their first year (of which the breastfeeding struggles formed a big part of the memory).

Judging by threads on Mn, the biggest problem facing bf mothers is older relatives who all know best, and feel the need to inform them that they're feeding their baby too much or too often, should be giving them water, that they're "making a rod for their own back" by feeding them when they cry etc etc.
Maybe in the 80s people minded their beeswax?

My aim was to do 12 months so I didn't have to faff about with bottles. I achieved this plus a bit extra with all 3. When they naturally dropped feeds with the introduction of solids I didn't keep offering feeds after a few attempts. So, once they began dropping feeds I could happily leave them with DH or other family/friends for portions of time - meet a friend for coffee, do the supermarket shop or just mooch around the shops. By 10 months or so, they were down to just a bedtime feed which meant I could go out in the evening (or all night).

Their needs were met and I didn't bound to them.

Well as an expectant mother, I have to say I rather regret plunging down into the wormhole of the Breastfeeding board on here.

I was all gung ho to be educated. I wanted to know what bfing was all about as I didn't know a single person who'd done it for longer than a few miserable weeks. I wanted it to be more successful for me.

But to my horror every thread was full of women at the end of their rope. They were utterly distressed, they had mastitis, they hadn't slept since the birth, and the baby wouldn't be soothed by anyone but them. They really were a walking dummy. They resented the baby. They never thought it would be like this. Their DH was was thoroughly freaked out and wanted them to start FFing cos they were just crying all the time.

And the responses were uniformly: "This is normal. You are doing the right thing and will get through this. And your husband is a knob for not understanding how bfing really is"

And I'm sat here going AAAAAAAAAHHHHHH!

Now I understand that logically people who are having no problems have no need to post. But my God, theres a lot of women out there who seem to find it excruciating. Its hard to just discount those wails of pain, and say "It'll be easier for me"

Truthfully, I am now much more anxious about bfing than the actual birth! I want to bf. However, I do not want to be a walking dummy. I do not want the baby, months later even, to only be soothed if I stick my boob in its mouth. I want other people to be able to take the baby for feeds. I want to go out without the baby sometimes, and not have to rush back. I don't want it to be all on me, frankly.

Reading these boards (and the terrifying Kellymom, my God!) has given me such a foreboding of the self-sacrifice involved in bfing that its making me wonder if its the right move for me at all.

I'm sure you also want to baby to sleep through the night, not be troubled by teething, settle easily into childcare, not be a fussy eater, not have terrible tantrums, have good teeth, do well in school...

You get the baby you get. Some are easier in some aspects some are harder in others. I could tell you I had a baby who was easy to breastfeed, didn't really tantrum, didn't struggle with teething, loved childcare, didn't sleep through til 2 (years), is a fussy eater. Who knows which boards you'll be posting on for advice

Did they have the internet in the 80-'s for you to discuss everything about BF'ing with others who were also BF'ing (or not)?

No?

oh!

Each experience is different. Personally I found it to be a piece of cake once we got over the tongue tie. But then I simply loved lazing round the house, watching box sets and BF.

Also BF allowed me to do different things and for my babies and I to be very mobile.

And no washing up so win win!

Annarose I would recommend stop reading the BF boards, finding a couple of positive BF role models in RL and just go for it. Best of luck.