in thinking breastfeeding needn't mean martyring yourself?

[kentishgirl]

Hi - sorry to start yet another bf thread, and I realise this might be contentious, but so many of the bf threads on here make me look like . I realise I'm probably a bit out of date with current thinking on all this, but bf sounds like so much hard work these days...and a little bit of me thinks some bf mums kind of enjoy being a martyr and it's competitive about how hard and such a sacrifice etc etc. This is not about mums who find it physically difficult or impossible to bf.

I bf in the 80s for 11 months. Babe had the odd bottle of formula if I wasn't around.

What puzzles me a bit is this stuff, that I read about on here a lot. Is this the reality now of bfing for everyone/most mums, or is this a minority who just talk about it a lot?

Cluster feeding - having a baby whacked on to you nearly non stop for weeks. Er...this wasn't 'a thing' when I bf. Sometimes babies were hungrier than other times. But no one sat there constantly bfing. Feeding on demand was a thing - but flexibly and not to the exclusion of being able to live a normal life. It just meant it wasn't feeding strictly to the clock. You expected to feed roughly every 2/3 hours within a couple of weeks once feeding was established.

If a baby cried, then it wasn't assumed to be hunger. You'd think 'well I only fed him half an hour ago', check nappy, play, distract, give water, is baby tired etc. It was accepted that there are times that babies just plain old cry. It's an easy solution to pop them on the breast, but it wasn't seen as their really needing a feed.

Longer and bigger bfs - it sounds like babies are on and off the breast all the time for a few mouthfuls these days. We used to do a good feed, if baby started nodding off or losing interest, you'd tap their cheek/stimulate them to get them feeding again. So you'd have a more 'normal' spacing between feeds, they didn't on the whole get hungry again a short time later.

Is it just me, or just the threads I read, that make it sound like every time a bf baby squeaks these days it's straight on to the breast, and there are women who literally have no life of their own or time of their own for months on end, because of this? And isn't this awfully off-putting to new mums about starting to breastfeed?

I know more mums start breastfeeding these days, and that's great. But so many drop out and switch to formula instead, whereas I think in the past, a higher proportion of those who started breastfeeding, continued with it. Is the new 'baby led' attitude to bf a bit of a double edged sword because of this? More try, but it's harder, so more have to give up?

I hate the term 'cluster feeding'. It makes me wince and squirm a bit.

I hate gimmicky catchphrases.

There was no such thing as cluster feeding in my day either - the baby going through an especially hungry/clingy stage. :D

Although in my case the baby was constantly in an especially hungry/clingy stage, hence why I ended up giving him bottles.

I don't see the point in this thread. If it wasn't harder than formula feeding more people would do it. Who cares which is harder?

Annarose, if you don't want to breastfeed then you can always choose to formula feed instead. So don't stress about it in advance.

If you decide you want to breastfeed, then bear in mind that your experience will be unique to you and your baby. Don't go into it assuming you will have all the problems that you read about on the Breast & Bottle Feeding board.

If we are discussing whether the Internet has made people more anxious, rather than less....then in my case certainly.

However its also true that those distressed women need a place to voice their pain, and they never had that before. I suspect that pre-Internet they would have just stopped BFing, as so many did in the '80's.

So its a double edged sword, really.

Mind you, The Womanly Art of Breastfeeding has been around for years, and it almost had me in tears. No way could I measure up to the saintly Eve-like image of perfect milky motherhood in those pages!

Annarose I'm one of the women you would have read about on the boards in the early days of feeding dd1.

It was agony and I dreaded every single feed. And I kept going because of the boards and because everyone said it would get better. They were right. And then it became glorious and easy and quick and clean and simple. Baby was happy, I was happy, dh was happy.

What did I learn that meant feeding Ds was easy from day 1? Apply more lansinoh than you could possibly think you need. Constantly. Make sure baby has mouth open REALLY wide. Ask for help and ask and ask if you don't think it's right. If it's still agony buy breast shields and give yourself a break. Or ff a couple of feeds until your nips recover and (then if you wish) back off from ff and bf more.

Most importantly though do what works for you and your family. If that's bfing then do it. If it's ff then do that.

Good luck. :)

(I really mean that about the lansinoh btw.)

A newborn feeds for about 40 minutes every 2 hours.
Mine fed on-and-off for about 20 minutes, every 45 minutes or so. That was bottle-fed expressed milk, not the breast, because she was too fussy to latch properly (poor thing wasn't well). 40 minutes every 2 hours, without also having to spend time pumping, sounds like bliss.
Even with crippling PND, I don't remember ever being completely unable to do anything else for days or weeks at a time. Which makes me want to bang my head against something hard at people who don't seem to realize that breastfeeding is not as complicated as they think it is.

Here's a tip: if you start talking in terms of 'mothers these days' being so much xyz than 'in my day', when we weren't so pathetic/useless/neurotic, then you are sounding like a miserable sanctimonious old curmudgeon. My granny lived to 90 with never a single snide dig at the younger generation, and she brought up two kids under the blitz. But then she was young at heart and fantastically interested and positive about the world. OP and others on here could take a leaf out of her book - it's deeply BORING hearing people banging on about how superior they were back in the day.

My experience was; difficult to establish then more difficult to stick to routine. When I relaxed and fed on demand it became easy. Fed whenever they cried and the crying always stopped. I'm sure the comfort of a large breast in the mouth was the reason, which worked for me (see stopped crying..)

I fed 3 kids very happily (for me and them) over 5 years. No drama.

I have no investment or judgement in how anyone else does it - this is purely my own experience.

And in relation to the title, I fed alot with no martyrdom involved at all.

I have breastfed for 8 years in totla, and never felt a martyr.
My first child ( only 5lbs at birth) fed every hour, day and night for several months.

I was just glad I didn't have to make bottles.

And I loved The Womanly Art of Breastfeeding- fitted my parenting approach really well.

anna my knowledge of bfing is minimal but if you don't want to be a walking dummy after a couple of weeks at the risk of stating the obvious you can always give baby a normal dummy!

My ex next door neighbour seemed to bf without too many issues and her babies had dummies. Now there's another ridiculous bone of contention on mn (generally, not just bf babies )

Yabu completely

Breastfeeding can involve frequent feeds but only in response to what a baby needs - why on earth would you jiggle/give water/let a baby cry rather than feed them!? My 9 week old dc2 never cries because as soon as she seems at all unsettled I offer a boob! She has naturally settled into a pattern and there was no need to force her to go hungry

My mum was brought up by her mother on a 4 hourly regime and was left to cry for hours - my grand mothers milk dried up with stress and it affected their relationship for life

For mums to be reading this please don't be put off bf after a painful couple of weeks it is so much easier than making up bottles and feeding on demand is the best way to calm your baby!

Totally agree with waterrat.

It's normally only the first few (up to 6) that can be hard when BF - but a LOT of those problems are caused by well-meaning/interfering people who don't know what they are talking about and make new mums doubt their instincts!

Once BF is established, it is so much easier. Normally. (Barring some medical issues such as tongue tie, reflux, etc., but these are not magicked away by giving bottles of formula!!!)

All of my 3 absolutely hated feeding on demand(breast and ff) and were far, far happier and more contented in a structured routine as was I.

Babies,mothers,circumstances and bodies differ hence the pointlessness of this thread.

I can understand what the OP is getting at, and that's speaking as someone who had their 1st child (and breastfed briefly) in the 80's. I don't think it's just about breastfeeding though. It's just that 'attatchment' or 'babyled' parenting is more common nowadays, at least on mumsnet.
Things that seem strange to me are things like bottlefeeding babies on demand, older babies being fed several times during the night, milk being the main food source until a year old, people being happy to breastfeed every hour or to be 'used as a dummy',etc.
It does seem strange to me, and it's not something that I've come across in real life either. The young Mums I know tend to do what their Mums did, rather than what what they read on the internet.
I would never use the word 'martyr' though, because that's an individual choice, so the OP is being unreasonable in that respect.

I bf my 4 as it suited my family life style. One I fed to 3 months and one to 2 years.

It never crossed my mind to refer my decisions to anyone else of care in any way what the flying fuck other people were doing.

My advice up my dds will be do what suits you and tell the world to fuck off. BF/FF which ever suits them.

Agree op I detest the ridiculous labels now. Cluster feeding, baby led weaning, baby wearing, attatchment parenting.

Total bollocks and not new at all it's what's always been done by parents but they didn't feel the need up form a group or bore for England.

I wouldn't have coped with ff because I didn't ever feed to a schedule

FF DS1 didn't feed to a schedule, he was demand fed.

Where's this idea come from that if you FF you have to have a schedule?

I think people who breastfeed unselfconsciously - ie no timing, no planning, no counting, often find breastfeeding a better experience.

I know some breastfeeding experts talk about the 'breastfeeding dance' - ie when feeding is a well coordinated exchange between a mum and a baby whose bodies are in harmony. This is what feeding was like for me and it was very easy (eventually, after the usually jiggery pokery of the first few weeks).

That's why I'm always a bit at the 'gadgets' designed to help women breastfeed, like special apps so you can measure and count feeds. Don't think they're helpful when it comes to feeding.

Pobble - you don't have to feed to a schedule if you're formula feeding.

But most mums do, because feeding little and often is a challenge unless you're using ready made formula, which is really expensive, or are riding a coach and horse through DFE recommendations in making up powdered formula.

I'd say with my three I sometimes fed 20 or 30 times or more in a 24 hour period. A baby who is bottle feeding can't graze in this way.

Most breastfed babies don't graze that way after the first couple of weeks either ime.

Was it someone on mumsnet who talked about breastfeeding often feeling so unselfconscious it was a bit like 'scratching an itch'?

Brilliant - I think this sums it up for me. When I was breastfeeding I spent very little time paying attention to feeding or thinking about it, any more than I'd pay attention to scratching an itch.