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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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To hope that I can ask about FF without being shot down in flames?

999 replies

Darksideofthemoon88 · 23/08/2014 12:58

I'm interested in WHY people choose to FF if not for medical reasons (ie they can't because of medication they have to take, or because their baby was very premature and is unable to suckle) - I've seen a lot of threads where people assert that FF was best for them/their family/their baby or that they chose to FF without trying BF, and I'm curious as to why. Genuinely curious I'm not interested in fighting with anyone about what's best or right; I'd just like to read about why people FF because I honestly don't know. In the interests of full disclosure though (I know how MNs feel about this! Grin ), I am a breastfeeding mother.

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endoflevelbaddy · 24/08/2014 09:28

I combine fed both of mine from very early on. Despite not having any actual problems BF (apart from a little tweak in positioning both times to stop my nipples being cut go shreds) I never wanted to BF exclusively, DH wanted to feed them and I wanted to be able to rest / have a break etc (especially after 36 hour labour culminating in EMCS).
I was never able to express enough with either DD for that to be an option either so it was formula.
It did mean I could leave them with a bottle if I ever needed to which definitely helped my sanity Grin

FacebookWillEatItself · 24/08/2014 09:36

pollomoomin I can completely identify with your first paragraph. There is nothing quite like feeling a total failure at BFing to tip you over the edge into PND. The peer pressure and the pressure from HCPs to do it and to be able to do it easily is immense. And the guilt attached to stopping because people will judge you as lazy/shallow/selfish/vain is overwhelming.

I can honestly say the day I came to terms with the fact that I could not continue with BFing with DC1 and DC3 (I was only three weeks in with both) felt like the most enormous black cloud had been lifted from me, and I never looked back. I literally changed overnight and I was a better mother for it, without a doubt. Better than I would have been by martyring on and giving them the benefits of breast milk, but being abjectly miserable and in pain. But that's me. I am genuinely delighted for anyone who finds it easy and if I had a fourth child I would still try my best to BF, but not a single tear would be shed if I failed and bailed next time. I am so over that.

Where I will get a bit judgey is when women will struggle on for months and months, miserable, feeling useless and hopeless, not enjoying motherhood at all, stressing about lack of sleep, or the baby's low weight, frustrated at the sheer number of hours given over to feeding, frustrated that in spite of those hours the baby never seems full or content for more than an hour or two and yet……mummy won't even consider putting some formula in a bottle and cutting herself some slack after three or four months, because she wants to do everything 'properly'. And by the time baby is ten months old and still hasn't slept through the night she's on the verge of a nervous breakdown. Confused

I just don't get it.

I know that BFing counsellors and advocates have a solution to just about every classic BFing problem there is, but some of those so called 'solutions' are extremely complicated and labour intensive in themselves and can involve weeks of trying to establish different patterns, routines, methods, schedules, and then we are told 'it won't necessarily happen overnight, you need to keep trying this, and then trying that…..' meanwhile a few more weeks of confusion and misery have passed. And you are told 'you must be doing something wrong, its so easy and so natural providing you just listen and do it right….'

'It's hurting? That's because he's not latching on properly. Here, let me look Oh. He is latching on properly. It must be you. You are sitting all wrong. Sit up, lay back, lean to the left, hang upside down. It's important to feed from both breasts at similar intervals or you'll get mastitis, except if you get mastitis anyway in which case it's ok to just feed from one for a while, but it's better to just feed through the mastitis. Confused Lay him this way and if that hurts then lay him that way and if it still hurts just feed through it, it will stop soon. What? It hasn't stopped? Your nipples still look like chopped liver? Oh. Never mind. Feed through it. You've been going for an hour and he's still hungry? He's only had foremilk. He needs hind milk. After x number of minutes the fore milk will be finished and the hindmilk will kick in. Keep an egg timer with you. Feed him for longer. Stop him feeding, he's just comfort sucking now. Let him comfort suck, he's distressed. He's crying after his feed? He's probably overfed. You gave him too much. You should have stopped sooner. He's not hungry he's just thirsty, FFS woman, can't you tell the difference? Oh hang on he's not thirsty or hungry now, he's bored, or he's tired or he's feeling insecure. Just feed him for that too….basically the answer to everything, including excruciating pain, is to just keep feeding through it. In fact, never leave your sofa. Let your other children play with matches or the traffic but just keep feeding. Not enough milk? Rubbish, of course there's milk. No-one has no milk. That's a myth bandied about by silly women who won't try hard enough. Oh. There's not enough milk. OK, next time you have spare milk, express it and freeze it so when you have no milk in your boob you have some expressed milk to hand. But how do I do that when I feel like I barely get a gap between actual feeds and as soon as I have milk the baby wants to drink it all and then there is no milk again? Besides, that breast pump feels like torture. Try a different breast pump. Buy these nipple shields, buy these pads, buy this cream, buy cabbages, drink more, drink less, eat this, don't eat that. Your baby doesn't sleep thought the night or for more than a hour at a time in the day? So when he's asleep wake him up and feed him so that later, when you are asleep he won't wake you up for a feed. What? Wake him up when he's asleep? I only managed to put him down an hour ago, after feeding him for an hour and a half. Confused If I have to wake him up now I might kill myself.

And on it goes. But apparently it's the easiest most natural thing in the world. If only we'd listen to the people who find it easy.

LittleBearPad · 24/08/2014 09:36

This thread seems to be going ok so far which is surprising.

I tried to bf, it didn't work out. NHS support is confined mainly to spending money on useless posters. At the time it felt like a big deal. It isn't and women who judge other women for how they feed their babies should jog on

Pobblewhohasnotoes · 24/08/2014 09:45

FacebookWillEatItself yes!

FryOneFatManic · 24/08/2014 09:46

For all those people who think that pretty much every woman could bf before formula was invented, I'll point out that in my family, and probably many others in those times, if a mother couldn't produce milk they tried to find another bfing mother. Or the baby starved to death.

I came across some letters between members of the family as part of my family research. It's just so sad. It's clear from the letters the baby starved.

I feel the pressure is just too relentless, and isn't looking at the whole picture.

What about that woman in America who killed herself because she was struggling very badly to feed her child. I believe the baby was about 12 weeks at that point, and from reports I read, no-one around the lady seems to have even mentioned FF. She may have had PND, but if so, I bet a lot of it had the bf issues at the root of it.

FrankelandFilly · 24/08/2014 09:49

Facebook I identify with your analogy of a black cloud lifting 100%. I was utterly miserable, DD was screaming blue murder at every feed because she wasn't getting enough milk (she lost weight between two weigh ins) and the guilt I was carrying at not succeeding at something that was supposed to be easy and natural was immense. So many people commented within days on how much happier I suddenly seemed and I finally felt able to enjoy being a mother instead of dreading feeding time.

For what it's worth, I never felt pressure from healthcare professionals to breast feed. I was asked if I intended to and that was that. A few days after I stopped breast feeding a health visitor came out to weigh DD, incidentally she was the designated "breast feeding champion" on the team. I told her I'd stopped BFing and cried, she hugged me and told me it didn't matter and it was important that I was happy.

Gileswithachainsaw · 24/08/2014 09:53

I bf dd1 for three weeks. It was three weeks of hell I was in soo much pain and bleeding and she wasn't getting enough. I went to clinics repeatedly but nothing helped. I expressed a bit fir about two months after. But bottles transformed her into a happy easy baby and things were so much better for both of us.

Dd2 well I'd already decided I'd go straight to FF. She was a little earky had weak suck and trouble with sugar levels at first so what she needed was to feed, I doubt pissing about with my unproductive breasts would have been the best idea anyway. She was CMPI so needed prescription milk.

No problem with bonding.

If I ever have a third I'm bottle feeding again.

LittleBearPad · 24/08/2014 09:54

Christ the relief when a HV specialising in breastfeeding told me to give DD a bottle. It was like she gave me permission. God alone knows why because I'm generally quite bright and good at making decisions

bearfrills · 24/08/2014 10:01

I was BFing DS2 in a cafe a couple of weeks ago and an older woman was watching us, she then walked over to our table. Oh no, I thought, here we go. I was expecting some sort of rant about me being a scarlet harlot baring my breast in public, in front of children and men and decent people.

How wrong was I?

She was actually coming over to tell me that it was lovely to see someone breastfeeding in public, especially given all the negative press lately. Fair enough. Then it all got a bit weird as she kept going on and on and wouldn't go a-bloody-way.

Then she said this: "three lovely breastfed children. You can really tell with your older two, it shines out of them, and this little one is going to be the same you've got a proper mummy, haven't you, instead of a selfish mummy? A proper mummy who gave you all proper milk instead of formula!"

I managed to stop myself telling her to fuck off but did reply "actually the older two were formula fed, they seem to have survived my selfishness though..." she looked uncomfortable and walked off.

I wonder if she goes up to FF mothers and tells them they're not proper mothers!

ColdCottage · 24/08/2014 10:09

Out of interest, those of you who ff from the start, did you give you DC the first colostrum feed or not?

Know this is highly promoted by MWs after delivery.

Pico2 · 24/08/2014 10:11

I'm not sure that most HCP are individually all that bothered about BF. They have to tow the party line, but once you've switched to formula they really don't seem to care. Not that there is much point in caring once a baby is FF as it is a permanent decision. I think that most HCP who see new mothers and babies have been around the block enough to know how stressful it can be when it isn't working and to have seen starving babies returned to hospital.

Fairylea · 24/08/2014 10:12

I've been flamed for telling this story before on here but oh well sod it...

After having ds I was put next to a woman on the postnatal ward who was struggling to breastfeed. She was trying everything and anything to get the baby to latch properly - skin to skin, lots of midwives in and out trying to help, constantly suggesting laying differently, rugby hold etc etc. Nothing was comfortable and the baby seemed to be getting more and more distressed and constantly crying (when I told this story before I got shot down with "but babies do cry") and yes they do cry but this was constant, a really distressed hungry cry all day and all night.

I listened to the mum in tears on and off all day and all night while midwife after midwife kept saying just keep trying, all she needs is you, keep going, express into a syringe and then try and give that, then try again - all the time the mum getting more and more upset.

Meanwhile, having been through all that with my first child ten years before I was sitting there behind the curtain feeding my newborn son a small bottle of formula watching him drift off into a peaceful sleep. I was the only formula feeding mum on a small ward of 8.

I think the mum next door wanted to offer formula as she asked about it several times but the midwives dismissed her as if she was being silly.

Eventually, busy body that I am Wink, when she emerged from the curtain I said to her you know what if you give a bottle no one is going to think you are a bad parent. The most important thing is that you are happy but the midwives won't suggest giving a bottle. You need to ask for one without asking what they think.

And she did.

The baby was like a changed baby and when she left the mum came over and thanked me and said I had made her feel so much better and that she was on the brink of severe depression.

I do think the promotion of breastfeeding has tipped almost too far. No woman should be made to feel so absolutely wretched.

catgirl1976 · 24/08/2014 10:16

Good for you Fairy

I've had a very similar conversation with DSis this week after finding her sobbing, exhausted, trying to feed a howling 3 week old

She gave him some formula, gave herself a break and now feels able to continue to breast feed with some formula feeds in between to give her a break

She and the baby are much happier

FacebookWillEatItself · 24/08/2014 10:24

LittleBear and Frankel exactly - although you are very heavily encouraged by HCPs to give BFing a go (and I always would, no question) I found they are actually quite unbothered if you try and then give up, especially if they know you are going through hell with it. In both cases of DC1 and DC3 it was a midwife at 3 weeks who 'gave me permission' to stop and it was such an enormous relief to not feel judged by the people who really mattered. With DC1 the midwife said 'for goodness sake, you don't get a medal for this you know. The only person who cares this much about 'failing' is you. Just do what works and makes you and baby happy.' I could have kissed her. Grin

The most judginess comes from other BFing mothers, I find.

Most experienced midwives are a bit more pragmatic - providing the baby gets plenty of colostrum for antibodies they know it makes a fairly negligible difference in the end whether you BF or FF, and while BFing is undoubtedly 'better' nutritionally, by far the most important thing for a baby is a happy mother who doesn't feel overwhelmed and miserable all the time.

CecilyP · 24/08/2014 10:26

Formula milk was and still is, a fairly crude approximation of breast milk invented to save the lives of babies who couldn't be breastfed. When that's how it was used primarily it was a great thing.

Surely, formula was invented because women were bottle feeding their babies anyway, either with watered down, sweetened ordinary milk or evaporated milk (I'm old enough to remember tins of Carnation with infant feeding instructions on the label) or with dried products which were later withdrawn. The developers of modern fomula milk then managed to produce something that would more closely resemble human milk and, yes, they obviously made huge profits from it, but they didn't drive the demand, they tapped into a market that already existed.

Fairylea · 24/08/2014 10:28

That's good catgirl :)

I think in some ways those that join somewhere like mumsnet are lucky because it allows new mums to see a more balanced view about formula feeding and breastfeeding. I don't think commonly known that midwives are actively discouraged from suggesting formula feeding or that formula is banned from being advertised. I think if more people were aware of this then people wouldn't feel so often bullied into continuing to breastfeed because they would recognise it as standard advice to everyone not specifically to them as therefore not go on to feel they have "failed".

FacebookWillEatItself · 24/08/2014 10:29

I agree Cecily. and if BFing was so easy and so wonderful for everyone why would any woman have spent money on an alternative in the first place?

PhaedraIsMyName · 24/08/2014 10:31

Facebook I can identify exactly with the black cloud lifting.

scarletoconnor · 24/08/2014 10:32

Most midwives don't care if you give up but really push for you to 'just give that first feed' because its a government target and the Trust actually gets paid for it.
They also get funding if a woman is discharged breastfeeding hence the initial push in hospital and complete lack of support thereafter.

Mrsjayy · 24/08/2014 10:37

I remember my nana talking about feeding her babies carnation milk not that I asked her why she didnt bf but she said that the babies were on carnation milk at 4 weeks sorry that was a bit random just saw somebody mention it and I remembered

SeagullsAndSand · 24/08/2014 10:39

That is awful.

I was discharged as bfing but I bloody wasn't.I was starving two of my dc.

Perhaps funding should be saved until the 6 week bench mark has gone which is a more accurate indication.There would be more of an inventive to actually help mothers instead of bullying and shaming them.

PhaedraIsMyName · 24/08/2014 10:39

Clearly better to live in the developing world then for a young child
What a ridiculous comment. Have you looked at world infant mortality rates?

Mrsjayy · 24/08/2014 10:40

There is a new mum with a thread in chat who is miserable breastfeeding I was going to link here but dont know how maybe somebody could pop in and do it

Fairylea · 24/08/2014 10:41

Already done it Mrs Jay Smile - if it's the thread I think anyway. .

SextonBlake · 24/08/2014 10:42

I always planned to ff, bf'ing was never something that I seriously considered but I was concerned that I would get pressurised to try it. When the midwife came to do my booking in appointment she said that she didn't care how I fed my baby so long as I do feed him. I had HG all the way through pregnancy and didn't fancy going from that to trying to establish breast feeding when I had no strong desire to try it.
He struggled to feed from day 1, but I was given no help as I was ff'ing and just told he would 'get it'. We were using the little ready made bottles but he couldn't suck properly and had jaundice. Anyway he ended up on Neocate which we get on prescription as he has cows milk allergy and reflux.
I have never felt pressurised to breast feed from anyone, however I do have friends on facebook who post 'breast is best' links which can be irritating sometimes. DS is 6 months and weaning now, but i'm not posting photos of his organic freshly made food that I have prepared for him and declaring it 'the best' for weaning. I don't feel the need to advertise what i'm feeding my baby, milk or solids. It makes no difference to anyone else.
I did try breast feeding once at 3am when he was a few days old and wouldn't take a bottle. I felt really strange and he looked at me like 'what the hell are you doing Mummy?' so I never tried again.