to want to know why British Jihadi fighters will have their passports revoked?

[partyskirt]

Upon hearing that there are 500+ English muslims fighting in Syria and Iraq as part of the Isis army I immediately looked online for what would happen to them if they tried to return to the UK. I've listened to the news for days and read the papers, government websites etc. and it seems that they will simply be allowed back in. I find this extremely frightening. Why isn't there a clear line on what will happen to them if they try to return? Why isn't the government being clear that they will have passports cancelled and be exiled?

Ah! Are you American, Tikimom? That would make total sense of the post I queried

Whoops! Yes, sorry, I keep forgetting to repost it when talking about America and "we".

Aren't there issues with British extradition to the States because of the conflicts regards what we see as extreme punishment?

It does help to get stuff like that straight. I was wondering what you could have mistaken Guantanamo for... then read your next post and it all became clear.

I have been listening to the news all day, has there been any mention of more Extraordinary Renditions on US news? I know Obama expanded the policy and have been pondering what would happen nowadays if a Guantanamo style base was set up and used.

One of the Guantanamo British prisoners was captured by British forces, I think possibly mi6 were involved iirc. They were handed over to America while still in Afghanistan and taken straight to Guantanamo. I reckon the same would happen here if British forces were the ones to catch him.

But there would need to be a currently operating Guantanemo, and, if I understand it correctly, there are 40+ people still there, so, despite my having asked Tikimom an now redundant question (sorry) I suppose it is very likely to be put back into full operation.

Quite likely very soon too! Hopefully they will stick to the 'no torture' promise.

The Australian government are hoping to introduce stronger anti-terrorist laws because of this situation.
Apparently they originally identified 30 Australians in Afghanistan, of whom 25 returned to Australia and 23 of those were later discovered to be taking part in terrorist activity.
www.heraldsun.com.au/news/prime-minister-tony-abbott-unveils-antijihadist-laws/story-fni0fiyv-1227014705177 I don't think this is invisible, or paywalled or anything.

Revoking passports just means that they cannot leave the country they have chosen to be in (well not legally anyway) and removes their ability to access consular help; why should this be a problem to them? They want to be where they are, fighting for their cause, with their "brothers" - so let them stay there.

Yes I'm right about one of the Brits in Guantanamo been captured by British forces. Or at least he was interrogated by MI5 while still in Afghanistan/Pakistan before been handed over to the Brits.

Another one was arrested by Pakistan police/army in Pakistan before been handed over to American forces.

Britain wanted nothing to do with them.

I have been listening to the news all day, has there been any mention of more Extraordinary Renditions on US news?

Our news is mostly about who James Foley was and how his family is coping. Not much talk about revenge yet. Our media is mostly reporting how the US didn't do more to save him, how we tried to save him, and why don't we rescue our citizens.

There isn't much talk about what we're going to do to capture him or what will be done with him. They don't even know who he is, and look how long it took to find Osama Bin Laden.

Thousands of innocent people have been exterminated because they don't follow these nutters particular brand of wahhibism, thousands more have been forcibly converted under the threat of death, three thousand women and girls have been kidnapped for sex slavery in the last few weeks alone, that only to adds to the women and girls held in Syria. Opposition to that is racist in certain minds of course. I'm not the ignorant and disgustingly offensive one here, thank you very much.

There is a huge problem with radical Islam as funded by Kuwait, Saudi Arabia and Qatar. They are funding extremist mosques and preachers all over Europe. It's not racist to point that out, it's not racist to point out that they're funding mass murder, religious cleansing and sex slavery, it's not racist to point out that those things are very wrong, it's not racist to assume that we are going to have a shit load of problems here with people doing the same evil that they have been practicing abroad. It's not racist to demand that people be held responsible for their actions, that parents be held responsible for how their parents raise their kids (or fail to), it's not racist to expect that muslims are held to the same standards as everybody else.

Stick your fingers in you ears and continue ignoring the blatantly obvious but keep your false racist accusations to yourselves. When these ISIS freaks are rampaging through your streets doing unto you as they have done to the minorities in Syria and Iraq, it'll be the fault of people who have ignored this problem and shouted down every attempt to deal with it.

Hopefully it won't get that far, only for the sake of the majority of us (muslims included) who don't deserve it.

Thumbwitch

And if Iraq and Syria don't want them, What should we say?
Tough shit they're your problem now?

Well they can't leave the country they're in without a passport, can they?

Bluebelljumpsoverthemoon

No need to play the racism card. I can't speak for others. But the problem I had with your post was that it read as sensationalist twaddle rather than well thought out points.

Holding parents responsible for what their adult children do is ludicrous.

Your being ridiculous Bluebell what if said parent of terrorist is also parent of a, lets say, doctor?

Oh a doctor cancels out a terrorist. As does two accountants or a dentist.

Thanks, Tikimom. Over here we are having odd reports about the Beatles, they have British accents, oh my how we laugh that all Brits sounds like the Beatles. Politicians making soundbites. Reports of American politicians making some weirdly restricted comments, presumably as they try very, very hard not to say something that would cause more grief for the families of all captured and endlessly pointless arguments, much like this one.

Pointless as in until we know who they are and where they are there is nothing we can do. And no one is going to tell us, even if/when public outrage demands to know the secret ins and outs of what each government is doing!

Arsenicy, I'll take your 2 accountants and raise you someone useful... a farmer!

But bluebell, that was a ridiculous post and to say that anyone here has been wishy washy, sticking fingers in ears etc is, as has been said, just sensationalist claptrap.

Most posters here have taken on board the legalities and restrictions placed on legitimate governments and have expressed dismay that anyone would suggest any legitimate government would throw away its moral standings in order to capture its own citizens and murder them, against its own laws. There are ways and means without overthrowing centuries of civilisation. We do NOT have to become the beast we fight.

Arsenicy, I'll take your 2 accountants and raise you someone useful... a farmer!

Ah usefulness as the criterion! Clever!

I agree that it is ridiculous to hold parents to account for what their adult children get up to. They may have been brought up in very liberal open homes, but got in with a youth group with an extremist leader - this happens.
When I went to Lombok some years ago with a friend, one of our tour guides was a lad of about 19, who told us that Taliban extremists were coming round the various villages and mosques, recruiting teenage boys to "the cause" - promising them all sorts. Not many on Lombok were interested, but other areas of Indonesia had more trouble with the boys getting involved.
I'm sure there have been cases of extremist leaders in mosques in the UK, and no doubt in Australia too, recruiting, and yes, brainwashing the youngsters into believing that they are on a mission from God and that the west is evil, without the knowledge of their families, let alone their blessing!

Please don't call them Jihadis, they are rank maniacs, breaking every rule that was ever set down in the Koran for warfare and conduct.

No, it's not racist to discuss the problems with radical Islam.

What doesn't make any sense from your previous post is why the parents of Islamic terrorists should be punished for their child's crime.

Should every parent be punished for their child's crime? Or are you reserving that particular treat for Muslim parents?

I'm not sure consistently refering to them as 'the rank maniacs' will work

I should imagine most parents of those who have gone out are horrified.

But what are you rehabilitating someone to? Maybe the Jihadists' perspective is reasonable for them, but they just would prefer a different type of society.

A wonderful poster called Mistress Mia has implied on other threads that unless they leave the faith, there is no chance of bringing them round because of the way the bible - the Qur'an is written and open to interpretation.

Apparently and this is not verbatim from Mistress, however radicals have too many answers for moderates trying to reason with them.

Surely this is what we have a Tower of London for?

I'm just wondering what will happen when the Yazidis and Middle Eastern Christians become "radicalized" after all the ethnic and religious cleansing they have been through.