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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to want to know why British Jihadi fighters will have their passports revoked?

396 replies

partyskirt · 22/08/2014 12:53

Upon hearing that there are 500+ English muslims fighting in Syria and Iraq as part of the Isis army I immediately looked online for what would happen to them if they tried to return to the UK. I've listened to the news for days and read the papers, government websites etc. and it seems that they will simply be allowed back in. I find this extremely frightening. Why isn't there a clear line on what will happen to them if they try to return? Why isn't the government being clear that they will have passports cancelled and be exiled?

OP posts:
Deverethemuzzler · 22/08/2014 14:44

I disagree there, Muslims are part of our fabric in UK, woven tightly in. They are society in UK

And daily being given messages that they are not welcome.

rpitchfo · 22/08/2014 14:44

i disagree that being more inclusive as a society will rid us of this problem. Some communities aim to ostracize themselves as they're are fundamentally opposed to that culture. Sometimes holding out a hand is futile...

Anyway that's all hypothetical and blue sky thinking, the threat is already here. People have already returned to the UK. This isn't a bunch of terrorists; this is a well trained, well resourced army with a long term strategy.

KnittedJimmyChoos · 22/08/2014 14:45

Someone who is butchering, and murdering on a mass scale, and raping like the men in ISIS right now, I don't want them to have money spent on rehab no.

They can go to prison, I dont want to let them out, and I dont want to waste money on rehab.

ArsenicyOldFace · 22/08/2014 14:45

I am not talking about general prisoner or the general population but specifically the butchers who are out murdering and raping at the moment as part of ISIS

So a special prison just for ex-ISIS life-means-lifers?

That would need a higher level of security than anything that currently exists in the prison estate. It would cost ££££££ and it would run the risk of being riot central.

BoredPanda · 22/08/2014 14:46

We are comparatively tolerant, but my mother has been subjected to three anti semitically motivated attacks in the past two months, and there's a sharp rise in those across the country, which doesn't show a very tolerant society. And think of the Daily Mail....they have a very badly disguised hatred of Muslims and it's one of the most read papers in the country.

Nomama · 22/08/2014 14:47

Eek! We do need rehab, deprogramming etc. We also need full life tarifs that mean full life - which may be the upshot of this, despite the human rights issues, UN and EU edicts.

But, as has been said before, we currently do not know what to do with them as, again, we do not know who they are!

KnittedJimmyChoos · 22/08/2014 14:47

Ok Devere.

Your right, UK is shit at inclusion we should be more like.....like....like......

Nomama · 22/08/2014 14:48

Well, inclusion and the state of prisons... there is only one candidate! Maybe not.

BoredPanda · 22/08/2014 14:49

But you can't in the UK, as far as I know, give a full life sentence. It isn't possible. We can't ensure they are never let out for the rest of their life. And we can't ensure those who aren't let out don't spread their extremist messages to people who may be more receptive in prison. We can't have terrorist only prisons (I doubt we'd have enough terrorists anyway- how many of that 500 will come back alive? How many will come back even if they are alive?) and we can't put people in solitary for the rest of their lives, they will mix. And without rehabilitation, they can continue the 'fight for the cause'.

MrsTerryPratchett · 22/08/2014 14:50

I'd love to see that prison and how it could be run. Very committed, fervent believers, all locked up together. Knowing there is no incentive for good behaviour as they will never be let out. In that case, could anyone enlighten me about why they wouldn't kill any guard they got near, why they wouldn't riot and hunger strike and set fires and generally be the worst prison in history? The money it would take to run it safely, let alone humanely, would be astronomical. Rehab looks cheap, really.

ArsenicyOldFace · 22/08/2014 14:50

They can go to prison, I dont want to let them out, and I dont want to waste money on rehab.

That type of approach tends to fuel the resentment. It creates martyrs. We don't know how large the numbers are going to be.

I'm more and more in favour of preventing young people from travelling to Syria/Iraq in the first place, I think. It might seem oppressive, but it has to better than all that follows.

KnittedJimmyChoos · 22/08/2014 14:51

sorry Arsenic you and Devere have got me in a pincer movement my post which you have quoted, was in response to her post that not all prisoners behead people.

Having had a quick think about it, Devere I think your probably right and with the right help and support, one can probably turn these.....Butchers back into valued members of society. They are obviously very dis enfranchised here, we must extend arms out to them and give them a big warm hug.
Now I need to go and clean up the blood from the floor as my heart is bleeding for them.

BoredPanda · 22/08/2014 14:51

We shouldn't be more like anyone, we can improve our country without looking at others to compare necessarily. We are a very tolerant country but we aren't completely, or even close to, tolerance and until all the media (I appreciate we can't change everyone's opinions and views) at the very least lose any islamophobic or intolerant stance, people will still feel like outsiders.

Username12345 · 22/08/2014 14:51

We are comparatively tolerant

I hate that word. To me it means, we don't like you but we'll put up with you.

Nomama · 22/08/2014 14:53

Bored, that was the point I was making. Maybe ISIS will make the EU and UN rethink their moratorium on life meaning life.

BoredPanda · 22/08/2014 14:55

Okay, I won't use tolerant. I don't know what word to use though. It is the word mostly used, however wrongly, in those situations. I hesitate to use the word acceptance as that also has the same ring to it (and I do see what you mean...it isn't about tolerating, or putting up with). I believe I remember a thread discussing a campaign for children with SNs where there was a bit of a debate about tolerance/acceptance/other words, and what they imply?

TheFairyCaravan · 22/08/2014 14:55

They will NOT all be locked up for ever. Even those who rape and kill.

They can be given a full life sentence in certain circumstances. One of Lee Rigby's killers was.

ArsenicyOldFace · 22/08/2014 14:55

Exactly my thoughts MrsTerry Hmm

Deverethemuzzler · 22/08/2014 14:55

Little hissy fit there Jimmy?
You ok hun?

ArsenicyOldFace · 22/08/2014 14:56

Tolerant is a wonderful word and very descriptive of the British. It evokes our easy-going acceptance of others very well indeed.

BoredPanda · 22/08/2014 14:57

Sorry, didn't know that about the whole life tariff. Although as it is for over 21s, and I think A LOT of the fighters will be younger by a year or so, would they be in custody for life (according to the link)? What's the difference?

rpitchfo · 22/08/2014 14:57

This reply has been deleted

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MrsTerryPratchett · 22/08/2014 14:58

I think people forget we are dealing with people. I've worked with offenders given very long sentences. We think of them as the person being locked up. Of course, they are not. A 20 yo given a 40 year term would be 60. 60 yo men generally don't run off to become freedom fighters/terrorists. They have health issues and grandchildren and hernias. If you gave a 40 year term, ISIS will hopefully be long over, the ME will look completely different. And, you don't give the message that there is never redemption and you don't incentivise people to behave terribly in prison.

Username12345 · 22/08/2014 14:59

I would argue that a majority of muslims hate the west and it's values.

And where did you get this little gem from?