to want to know why British Jihadi fighters will have their passports revoked?

[partyskirt]

Upon hearing that there are 500+ English muslims fighting in Syria and Iraq as part of the Isis army I immediately looked online for what would happen to them if they tried to return to the UK. I've listened to the news for days and read the papers, government websites etc. and it seems that they will simply be allowed back in. I find this extremely frightening. Why isn't there a clear line on what will happen to them if they try to return? Why isn't the government being clear that they will have passports cancelled and be exiled?

Citizenship can only be removed if obtained by naturalisation, not if born British. There is no indication of whether these British citizens are by birth or have naturalised.

I'm not defending the actions of terrorists at all, but find the idea that a state should be able to remove citizenship of any citizen for whatever reason actually not that good.

Where do you want to draw the line? Is it just terrorism offences, or any other, too?

Why should it matter if citizenship was from birth or obtained at later point in time? Doesn't that mean that naturalised citizens are in fact not full citizens but somehow second class? (Especially as under current rules the mere suspicion of terrorism offences is enough grounds for removal, they don't have to be actually found guilty).

As I said, I've no special regard for terrorists and don't seek to speak up for them, but people arguing in favour of the state being given power to render anyone stateless leaves me uneasy.

They should simply be shot on sight. Job done

Happily for us we don't live in a society where this would be an acceptable way of meting out justice

saucy if we, as you suggest, charge and imprison them then we end up footing the bill for them. Sod that, leave them where they are, never to return here. They made their choice when they left here.

Yes because if you're not separating people into us and them then you must be clasping violent terrorists to your bosom and claiming them as close personal friends.

It was finnicky to interpret her use of 'these people' i the way you clearly did.

The terrorist IS fighters concerned have wilfully put themselves outside of mainstream society, have chosen to become 'outlaws' or 'other' or whatever term one plumps for. That is a deliberate and positive choice on their part. We cannot adequately address the ramifications of that choice with fluffy inclusive rhetoric.

In this (rare) case 'Us and them' is a very applicable concept. I refer you to decades worth of criminological reserch.

Well said Saucy

And as we don't yet know the identity of 'these people' a) how else do we refer to them and b) we won't know if they can be deported until we do!

Arsenicy is quite right!

xvxvxv your post is ridiculous.

You are conflating (probably wilfully) the peaceful followers of Islam with violent fundamentalist Islamist terrorists.

Go and read a book or something. If you can.

TheFairyCaravan They left to fight for a cause. As far as I know, they did not give up there British citizenship. If they come back then we should deal with them.

LadyLuck10 They should be imprisoned Where did I say they shouldn't be?

I doubt anybody wants them back Their families might. Nevertheless, want we want is irrelevant. They are British citizens. Even when in another country.

TheFairyCaravan They left to fight for a cause.

No.

They left to engage in terrorist activity.

Coming back to a bullet in the head could be fair. Then they would die happily knowing they are martyrs, and will fly to whatever paradise they expect. Win-Win!

They didn't leave to "fight for a cause"!

They are terrorists. When/If they come back and they slip through the net they will make it their "cause" to recruit more young men and women to engage their terrorist activities.

Hopefully the majority of them will have a "work accident" or get killed by opposition forces before they can come back to the UK.

You can't remove someone's citizenship of the country they were born in.

And then what country do you make them citizens of? And how do you square that on with, for example, Belgium or whoever else you decide to palm them off to? Or do you make them stateless? And then under which country's laws do you prosecute them?

I doubt very much they come back and when border control asks the purpose of their trip they say "Oh, I've been engaging in terrorist activities overseas".

Lots of people legitimately travel to Syria etc. Probably most who go their for nefarious reasons don't go direct.

IF they arrive in the UK and IF they are known or suspected of criminal activity they will be arrested, stand trial and if found guilty sentenced accordingly.

You can't just say "Well you aren't British anymore". That's nonsensical.

OP you seem to be assuming that these people are all immigrants to the UK and have been awarded British Citizenship at some point.

So you are suggesting 'sending them back' yes?

But they are not all in that position are they? Many are born in the UK, second or third generation and some are from families with no connection to any Islamic countries at all.

So where would they go?

YY to the posters pointing out that you can see flaws in this argument AND to the 'shoot them on sight' comments yet not be wet hippies who want to cuddle terrorists and give them cake and a cup of tea

The classic straw man argument used on these threads.

Coming back to a bullet in the head could be fair. Then they would die happily knowing they are martyrs, and will fly to whatever paradise they expect. Win-Win!

Wouldn't exactly be re-asserting British democratic values, though, would it?

But they did leave to fight for a cause. That we name that cause terrorism has never stopped anyone for fighting for what they believe to be right, no matter how deluded the moral majority thinks they are.

Yes, they are terrorists and yes they should be stopped and have their platform for recruitment taken away.

But does that have to involve our society stooping to return to such societal behaviours that we have considered outmoded for decades?

I hope not.

'These people', are they not our people? Is this not still their society too?

They're certainly not my people and I would hope that I never have to live in the kind of society they aspire to.

I don't think Islamic terrorists actually recognise countries....
I'm assuming that those who have visited these areas are monitored when they return to Britain.
Personally I'd like the UK Gov to outsource flights back to Britain from war zones wherever to El Al ...

But does that have to involve our society stooping to return to such societal behaviours that we have considered outmoded for decades?

I hope not.

Hear hear.

If the majority get dragged down to supporting violence (capital punishment), then we have all lost.

So when we have another mass murderer or serial killer shall we send him back to where he came from too?

Bradford, London, Ongar, Torquay........

ArsenicyOldFace Not at all!

Too bad...

I guess they'd have to be charged with a criminal offence as civilians, since we don't operate a Guantanamo Bay equivalent

but do want them in prison apparently thats another rich hunting ground to radicalize them.

Bradford, London, Ongar, Torquay........

Definitely Ongar. Sounds dodgy

I think it's fair to say Knitted that they are already radicalised. I doubt they'd be put in the general prison population but would be held separately.

Devere I think the unique feature of the current situation is that 'these people' are supposed to be happily skipping off to create a Shariah Utopian state under an IS caliphate (emigrating if you will) and are quite vocal about it.

So the bemusement from some is that they can't be RE-patriated BACK to THERE (haven't quite decided if I agree yet but I see the argument). It isn't ye olde NF 'send them back home' rhetoric, I think....