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to want to know why British Jihadi fighters will have their passports revoked?

396 replies

partyskirt · 22/08/2014 12:53

Upon hearing that there are 500+ English muslims fighting in Syria and Iraq as part of the Isis army I immediately looked online for what would happen to them if they tried to return to the UK. I've listened to the news for days and read the papers, government websites etc. and it seems that they will simply be allowed back in. I find this extremely frightening. Why isn't there a clear line on what will happen to them if they try to return? Why isn't the government being clear that they will have passports cancelled and be exiled?

OP posts:
HauteChocolate · 22/08/2014 23:06

To be fair, the IRA is a totally different kettle of fish. It's a bit late now to debate what should or shouldn't have happened then. The fact of the matter is that there is a huge problem with 500+ British born, bred, and educated men doing unthinkable things and fighting for Sharia law. If they believe in that, they have no place in this country. Sending their families back home would be the first thing we should do. It's unthinkable that we'd ever let these people back.

I'm genuinely worried for Britain's future, and angry at our collective spineless apathy and lack of strategic direction. MistressMia please tell us you're in a think tank, or advising the government in some way...you genuinely understand the problem.

KnittedJimmyChoos · 22/08/2014 23:08
  • MistressMia please tell us you're in a think tank, or advising the government in some way...you genuinely understand the problem

Forgive me if I am wrong but I think Mistress Mia was a Muslim and read her way out of it?

Username12345 · 22/08/2014 23:08

HauteChocolate

Sending their families back home would be the first thing we should do.

What does this mean?

If they are citizens of this country, they are home. If they are born here, they are home.

HauteChocolate · 22/08/2014 23:10

Yes. So she understands what we're dealing with. I've heard things like burying a "martyr" [balk] with a pig means that they will be eternally damned. Maybe we should start doing that. They might think twice before committing atrocious acts of violence.

KnittedJimmyChoos · 22/08/2014 23:10

I m not old enough to know much about IRA, I do remember bombings and fear.

Did they have suicide bombers?

500+ does seem like a lot when Australia only think they have 23 and are spending x million on seeking them out when they go back in the country with all sorts of scanners.

But their borders anyway, our much tighter than ours.

It feels to me like a perfect storm of calamities has happened and is happening and is forming.

KnittedJimmyChoos · 22/08/2014 23:12

Username12345 Fri 22-Aug-14 23:08:48
not sure if you were on the passport thread but I think it was mentioned depending on who catches them, they could go to Guantanamo Bay? Or someone had been captured and taken there or something.

KnittedJimmyChoos · 22/08/2014 23:16

Oh lord, time for bed, this is the passport thread!

susiq123 · 22/08/2014 23:21

I agree with everything Bluebell said, but draw the line at holding the parents of adults responsible for their actions.

I also hope that many of the posts on here, especially Mrs Pratchett's are NOT representative of the population in general. What exactly does it take for some on here to actually feel anger and revulsion at IS and its depraved slaughter across Iraq and Syria? Your bleeding hearts, and OH so liberal stance make me wonder how messy your pants would get if those masked creatures were coming for you. Just pray they never do. But you are so lucky aren't you? Thousands of miles from being slaughtered as you tap tap tap at your computers.

Of course these disgusting people should never be allowed back into this country. If the law says they must, then we must change that law and fast.

ArsenicyOldFace · 22/08/2014 23:27

We can't run our society using the same methods ISIS want to use for theirs susiq, is that what you suggest? Violence and summary justice? Then how would we better? What would we be saving or protectng exactly?

Username12345 · 22/08/2014 23:30

susiq123

But you are so lucky aren't you? Thousands of miles from being slaughtered as you tap tap tap at your computers.

You mean, like you're doing?

Keeping your head on straight doesn't mean you don't feel anger or revulsion.

What good would come from getting emotional and running around screaming 'off with their heads'.

susiq123 · 22/08/2014 23:32

The same methods as IS? What are you talking about Arsenic?

Read my last sentence, nothing violent about closing our doors to these creatures. Who cares where they go, as long as it's not here. And just how would YOU feel if they showed up at the end of your street? DO tell me.

ArsenicyOldFace · 22/08/2014 23:34

Well susiq the choice is essentially between having the rule of law or not.

I like the rule of law.

Isis don't.

Neither do you, apparently.

susiq123 · 22/08/2014 23:34

Oh Username, don't put words in my mouth, or you are losing the argument already. I can see you have some sort of empathy with these men, judging by your previous posts.
You call me emotional, I call it fire in the belly...you could do with some.

susiq123 · 22/08/2014 23:36

Arsenic, you are not concentrating. I said if the Law says we can't stop these savages coming back in, then we must change the law.

HauteChocolate · 22/08/2014 23:37

just to be clear, I'd send their wife (wives?) and children to join them, and monitor other relatives. I wouldn't send a parent etc, since for all we know the terrorists may have been radicalized at school (anyone remember Birmingham?) etc.

I would have a massive issue with my tax money being used to provide schooling, health care, etc for a terrorist's wife/wives and child(ren).

susiq123 · 22/08/2014 23:38

Still waiting for yoru answer, Arsenic? IS is coming down your street, how do you feel now?

And it's late so I am off now.

ArsenicyOldFace · 22/08/2014 23:39

Policy of mine not to concentrate too hard on tabloidesque posts about messy pants and people tap tapping hundreds of miles fromm whatever it was. Sorry.

What are you typing on, incidentally? Kalashnikov?

MistressMia · 22/08/2014 23:39

Deverethemuzzler This is not just about religion. This is about lack of opportunities, direction and those who can make a difference not stepping up and doing so

The socio-economic profile of your average Jihadi is that of educated middle -upper Class as seen by the preponderance of University educated militants in the ranks and file of IS and Al-Qaeda. Indeed Ayman Al-Zawahiri, leader of AQ being a surgeon himself may be the inspiration for the recent spate of British doctors and med students joining IS's ranks. Bin Laden was hardly short of a bob or two.

The 7/7 and 9/11 bombers didn't come from deprived backgrounds at all. Rather the contrary. They all had professional jobs, own homes and the usual trappings of success. University campuses are one of the biggest areas where the extremists recruit new followers, with fundamentalists Islamic societies and groups being formed by the students themselves.

I also take issue with this 'lack of opportunity' argument. Most British muslims in this country come from the Pakistani & Bangladeshi sub-continent. In appearance they look no different to their Indian-origin Hindu compatriots who came to this country at the same time. Why have the latter group excelled and the former not ?

Certainly before 9/11 there was no difference in most indigenous British peoples minds between Hindu's, Sikhs and Muslims. We were all 'Asian' and yet even back then the difference in educational achievements and professional progression between the two religious groups of immigrants was apparent.

Growing up as a 2nd generation Pakistani-Brit, in the pre 9/11 era, I had exactly the same opportunities available to me as anybody else and never faced obvious discrimination from the outside. However, there is a lack of opportunity for some, but it is imposed internally from within the family rather than from external racism. The religious restrictions of Islam and cultural ones from the 'homeland' are the barriers to success. Not prejudice and racism from white people.

Obviously in the current climate, undoubtedly there is now some overt or covert 'racism' towards muslims. But back in the late 80's and early 90's when radicalisation first started and before any muslim terrorism against western targets, there wasn't any Islamophobia. So those early radicals like Anjem Choudhary (who was a beer swilling typical uni student) of Al-Mahijaroun or the founders of Hizbt Tahrir had no excuses such as deprivation or discrimination for their radicalisation.

ArsenicyOldFace · 22/08/2014 23:44

I also take issue with this 'lack of opportunity' argument. Most British muslims in this country come from the Pakistani & Bangladeshi sub-continent. In appearance they look no different to their Indian-origin Hindu compatriots who came to this country at the same time. Why have the latter group excelled and the former not ?

Interesting point. Presumably arguments could be made about Indiam immigrants from 50s onwards bringing certain advantages with them though?

Admiraltea · 22/08/2014 23:46

There is no rehab for functioning addicts (drugs/alcohol) who pay their taxes every day and can't access any services in case they lose their jobs, there is no support for mental health issues on the NHS as those records are accessible by employers, there is no mental health support for children under the age of 11 in most authorities.

There is no fucking money for most of this and you are seriously saying that at an average cost of £29 thousand per year per prisoner that prison is a solution !!!!

And that is before you are adding in rehab..according to gov figures for 2013 the cost for each person in young offenders age 15-17 was £84,158

They do not wish to be a part of the UK they have effectively emigrated.

www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/251272/prison-costs-summary-12-13.pdf

Am sure there are more up to date figures but these were closest I could find.

Username12345 · 22/08/2014 23:49

HauteChocolate

Is it very likely, your tax is already being spent on the wives and children. What are you going to do now, stop paying?

susiq123

Oh Username, don't put words in my mouth, or you are losing the argument already.

If you're referring to the 'off with their heads' part of my post. I wasn't suggesting you had said that. I thought it was well know quote by the Queen of Hearts. You know the over emotional character in Alice in Wonderland.

You call me emotional, I call it fire in the belly

An antacid usually helps with that.

MistressMia · 22/08/2014 23:59

Interesting point. Presumably arguments could be made about Indiam immigrants from 50s onwards bringing certain advantages with them though?

Your're right. There was a socio-economic difference with the many of the Indian immigrants being professionals or established business people from East Africa and India, while many Pakistani's were unskilled, uneducated labourers from rural poorer areas such as Azad Kashmir. However the Sikhs were very similar in profile demographically to Pakistani muslims, coming from rural Punjab. Arguably their beards and turbans made them stand out more. Sikhs as a group though have also done better than muslims.

Deverethemuzzler · 23/08/2014 00:01

So looking like another set of brown people is the same as having the same background?

Are you joking?

ArsenicyOldFace · 23/08/2014 00:05

I'll make the Brew Hmm

ArsenicyOldFace · 23/08/2014 00:07

Although I thought she was saying the opposite DeVere, but i'm tired, so i'll hide behind the kettle.

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