to want to know why British Jihadi fighters will have their passports revoked?

[partyskirt]

Upon hearing that there are 500+ English muslims fighting in Syria and Iraq as part of the Isis army I immediately looked online for what would happen to them if they tried to return to the UK. I've listened to the news for days and read the papers, government websites etc. and it seems that they will simply be allowed back in. I find this extremely frightening. Why isn't there a clear line on what will happen to them if they try to return? Why isn't the government being clear that they will have passports cancelled and be exiled?

Al Jazeera are a good source of news.

I've picked up bits and bobs on the internet for years, partyskirt - the article I found above I got myself - it was the first hit that came up on google when I put something like 'US soldiers in Israel' in the search bar. I can't remember when I first heard about foreign fighters in the Israeli army, but I've known about it for a long time. I first came across mercenaries when I worked for an NGO in a war zone, maybe 20 years ago now. I was shocked at the time and thought it was a weird thing to do, but it was just accepted that that's how things were. And I suppose if you think about it, Lord Byron was a mercenary, lots of people who opposed Franco were mercenaries (and incidentally branded as terrorists as they were fighting against the state) - any soldiers I've met have considered it one of these things that happens in wars.

People mentioned the sex slavery WRT ISIS/IS. Our own institutions are involved in child abuse and rape. That was the point i was trying to make

There are a number of threads on the child abuse in institutions at the moment, but this thread is about Isis.

I am unsure as to people feel the need to bring in abuse by catholic priests and so on, when talking about IS. We know about all of that, and on other threads about them, we talk about them, but this thread is about this specific threat.

That sounds like thread policing, I am to tired to re write it, what I mean is, why do people feel the need to quickly say, yes there is isis but there is also cathlic priests...its seems out of fear or something...

Knitted, for me the point is that it's a bit rich to go around saying that the child abuse happens because they're all Muslims and they're anti-democracy etc when the exact same thing is happening in our own institutions which are nominally at least supposed to be democratic. The problem isn't Muslim vs Christian or civilised vs stone age or whatever other epithets you want to use - the problem is patriarchy, abuse of power and waste of young vulnerable lives. Which is not an either/or thing.

What I'm saying is that those in glass houses might not want to throw stones. Particularly when they are so keen on telling everyone else that they are democratic, safe, enlightened, free from religious bigotry and transparent.

I actually wouldn't mind if people were honest enough to say that this is dog eat dog, we will win and keep our patch of ground at the expense of anyone and anything else. But the US and the UK (and others) want to keep the moral high-ground as well. If we want the moral high-ground we should keep our house in order. That includes not allowing members of religious institutions to sexually abuse children.

who is saying they are free from x y and z we know there is a huge problem in uk, Europe and world wide with peadophiles, its all spelled out on the threads in great detail.

• If we want the moral high-ground we should keep our house in order. That includes not allowing members of religious institutions to sexually abuse children

Its all coming out, the public are aware, there is a huge ground swell movement to try and get it all out into the open once and for all...see the threads.

Knitted it is basically the atheist trying to beat the Christians with the stick of Islam. The true motive or wish for people who make such ridiculous comparisons is that Christianity is eradicated from the British society and Islam is a far lesser evil or at least tolerable so they are sympathetic to the plights of these men and think they can be rehabilitated (that actually made me laugh and go 'ah bless')
The govt just has to get rid of the Christians first and burn all the churches then all will be well.
That may well happen when the atheist labour govt wins next year.

The initial question was whether Jihadis should have their passports revoked. Effectively making some people stateless. This is considered an extreme thing to do. I imagine it's rarer than the death penalty by quite some degrees. Theoretically, this means that it would only happen when someone had done something unconscionable, dreadful, completely outside the realms of 'normal' criminality.

It can't be, 'those brown people did something that happens every day here but because it's Islam and because it's overseas, let's punish them in a way we would never consider for anyone else'. I am trying to say that we can't treat these horrible crimes, and they are foul, as something outside, foreign, because similar things happen in different ways in our own institutions.

The difference between sexual abuse scandals and sex slavery is that one population believes they are both inherently wrong and we are led to believe another population doesn't . My own jury is out on this because i have yet to hear from someone in Syria/Iraqi who has stated that they are fine and dandy with it . And i am not talking about random ISIS tweets .

A great part of me would love to play the 'not my circus , not my monkeys card ' , but the problem is i also don't want to leave people to a hideous fate at the hands of radicals , if there is something that can be done to help them .

I do believe that the vast majority of Muslims are exactly like me , they want to be able to do everyday tasks like go to work , take their children to school , meet up with friends and family , have a good bitch about said friends and family on anonymous internet forums , without living in fear . But then even talking about Muslims as if they are one great homogenous mass is ludicrous .

I also think it is important to remember that to some ISIS are the good guys , they believe they are just and fair , that they do not commit atrocities , that life will be better living under their particular regime than what is currently on offer . That regardless of our involvement the biggest fight going on is muslim against muslim .

Err, I don't think Xtianity should be 'eradicated from British society'. I think it has no place in schools, in the position of the head of state, or in the House or Lords though. Go to church if you want to. Hell, kill the odd chicken or two and drink their blood if you want to or whatever other odd superstitious crap you feel the need to adhere to. I just don't want your belief and worldview to have precedence in any of the state institutions that govern me and my family and educate my children.

Why the venom towards Christianity Cruikshank? This thread is about IS. Do the school your kids go to kill chickens and your DCs to drink? If so that is disgusting and should be reported immediately and has nothing to do with Christianity.

And give the blood to your DCs....

Christianity is very mild in schools and government in Uk in 2014 and I don't think it compares to ISA, isn't that deflecting from this serious issue.

They are traitors and should not be let back in. They can stay in the Islamic countries.

they will want it all ways.

"The initial question was whether Jihadis should have their passports revoked. Effectively making some people stateless. This is considered an extreme thing to do."

Umm...these people are terrorists, who have demonstrated values which are out of place in British society. Being made stateless is hardly an extreme thing to do, given their actions. I think their families should also be deported, to wherever the terrorist has gone. Do you really think the families have different values to the terrorists? They have no place in civilized society, and I resent paying for their family's education, health care, pension etc.

It's not war, but it's definitely going in that direction. How many beheadings and executions will it take for people to wake up?

For the posters going on about Christianity, read your history books and start a new thread if you're really interested. Revoking passports for terrorist activity is a totally different conversation.

Everyone born in Northern Ireland is entitled to British and Irish citizenship.

So was there ever any mention of terrorists convicted in NI being stripped of their British nationality? Particularly as it would not have rendered them stateless.

Nor were they ever convicted of treason, despite their numerous attacks against the British state.

Most of them have also been released from prison and some of them are not at all repentant.

Yet get some brown people doing very horrible things abroad and all of sudden...well, we see what people are saying on this thread.

I think this legislation sets an extremely dangerous precedent.

I wish they would stay in this Islamic state utopia that they love so much. No doubt they'll be back when they get bored or get shot and want the nhs or something.

They should definitely lose their passports and also be barred from ever returning to the UK.

I suppose you could argue that we let people emigrate to the uk and this is how their offspring turn out. the IRA terrorists had been here for generations

MrsTerryPratchett I DON'T agree with these maniacs but can people understand why there is so much anger? Rendition, drones, the Gulf Wars (note the plural), racism, Islamophobia, violence against Muslims, Guantanamo

The above are all recent things that have been used to whip up increased fervour and justification. The roots of Islamic Jihad started much much earlier (one could in fact say in the 7th Century) but the modern revival was in the 50's by Qutb, who later joined the Muslim Brotherhood.

It is worth reading his exegis of the Quran "In the shade of the Quran' where he concludes that violent offensive jihad against unbelievers and Muslim governments that haven't implemented true Sharia is a mandatory religious requirement, as only this will return muslims from their present day state of Jahilya (ignorance) where they trail behind the West, and restore the Islamic world to the pre-eminence and glory it enjoyed immediately after Islam's initial spread.

Here is an English translation for those who are interested:
tafsirzilal.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/at-taubah-eng.pdf

Westerners are making a serious error by only selectively listening to what the Jihadi's themselves are saying. Their motivations are not just in response to western foreign policy. If they were, there would not be the forced conversions, persecution and barbarity towards the minorities, who have of course not done anything to them.

They are doing this to fulfil their duties as 'true muslims' as instructed for them to do so by the Quran and by the prophet Muhamed's example, who used extremely similar methods. They are driven to implement Allah's Laws, initially in existing muslim lands, and later in non-muslim ones.

They should stay in their Islamic state heaven. They should not let any terrorist into the UK whatever their colour. At the moment ISIS and such like are in the forefront.

Westerners are making a serious error by only selectively listening to what the Jihadi's themselves are saying. Their motivations are not just in response to western foreign policy. If they were, there would not be the forced conversions, persecution and barbarity towards the minorities, who have of course not done anything to them

Thanks for clarifying this point, and putting it in a clear way.

Its the treatment of the women that has horrified me most of all. This deliberate capturing of women on a mass scale.

www.newenglishreview.org/Nicolai_Sennels*/Muslims_and_Westerners%3A__The_Psychological_Differences/

some one posted this here or another thread

They should be hanged for treason, their spare parts used for organ donation and the leftovers used to make dog biscuits