Intolerable situation with DH and DM - who is BU?

[CambridgeBlue]

I'll try to keep this brief - basically DH can't stand DM. I am the first to admit she can be difficult and at times very irritating. She falls out with various friends/family members, has absolutely no tact and can be pretty self centred. Trying to keep it balanced I would also say that life has dealt her some pretty crap cards but she is well-meaning, generous and would do pretty much anything for her family.

DH has never had much time for her but lately the situation has got completely out of hand. He will barely speak to her if she visits, never comes with us if we go to visit them and just makes it obvious he can't stand her. I have some sympathy as she can be quite intrusive (always turns to me, never DB ) but I think you have to make some allowances when you marry into a family - I could never imagine behaving to MIL as he does to DM.

Two things lately have brought this to a head - first is that DM has a big birthday this year and DH has flatly refused to attend the celebration. I have accepted this because I know DD and I will have a better time without him but it looks awful to other people and just emphasises to DM that despite me making excuses for his behaviour, he does actually dislike her.

Secondly, they had quite a major incident at home a few days ago which led to DM calling me lateish one evening in tears. I was asleep, DH wouldn't wake me (luckily the phone had so I did take the call) and was extremely unsympathetic. I appreciate late night calls scare the crap out of you and maybe there was no need to ring at that time but again, I just can't imagine being so unkind to someone.

I just don't know what to do. I have made a conscious effort lately to stand up to DM when she is being unreasonable but at the end of the day she is my mother, she is getting older, is not in great health and I have no choice but to be there for her. DH can be quite judgy and antisocial with other people but never as bad as this.

It's ruining my relationship with DH as I feel completely stuck in the middle (we are pretty happy the rest of the time, not perfect but what relationship is?) What's worse is that DD is getting old enough to see both sides and she feels stuck in the middle too. I find myself offloading on her because she is the only one who understands but that's not right as she is too young to have to deal with such crap (she's 12).

We're supposed to be off on holiday in a few days but I feel totally fed up at the thought of playing happy families for a week - I try to put things out of my head and keep the 2 'sides' separate as much as possible but it's just not working any more.

what was the major incident? has no right to not give you calls unless you tell him to. It is hard to judge this from the outside because without knowing more detail of your Mum's behaviour, nobody can really say how unreasonable your DH is being.

you say she is irritating, difficult, tactless and self centered but those are vague attributes....if someone on here posted about their MIL saying she was those things, doubtless people would say "avoid her" so although your DH may be unreasonable....he may NOT be too.

Expand upon your DMs behaviour. I cannot be sure who is BU without more info From what you have said, your DM is a royal selfish PITA and DH has had enough of her and wants to be NC. I wouldn't argue with that tbh. He has every right to choose who he spends time with. You say you wouldn't treat MIL this way but I am guessing MIL doesn't behave as badly as DM so it isn't a fair comparison is it?

What do you mean about the holiday - you are going on holiday with DH and DM?

You need to stop unloading on DD immediately, regardless of who is U - YABVVU confiding adult issues in a child. My DM did this to me and it was very damaging.

I was about to post pretty much what Mrs has just said.

You DO have a choice about being there for your mother, you know. You have a brother, it seems. He can step up and do more then.

You CHOSE to marry your DH. You did not CHOOSE your mother.

In my book, unless your DH is being totally unreasonable, and he may well not be, I'm afraid your primary family should be him and any children. Parents and siblings are secondary family. YOU are the family unit.

I never get the whole "marry into a family". No you don't. There is nothing in the marriage ceremony or vows about taking on your partner's family, just your partner!!

Your DH needs to grow up a bit I think.

It's absolutely fine for him to not see much of her AND to tell her to back off if she is being tactless/selfish or whatever.

BUT it is not fine for him to dig his heels in about going to the birthday bash and thus place you in a horrible position (not to mention making your Mum feel bad).

It's also not on for him to decide whether she gets to speak to you or not on the phone.

He is causing you distress.

My MIL is tricky but I go to see her for DHs sake and we rub along okay.

I just make sure I don't give in to her more ridiculous notions or put up with her comments about gay people or black people.

Hmmm...I'm not keen on my fil, and tend to avoid him if at all possible...but needless to say when we are in one another's company, I'm the soul of civility.

I don't think it's on to make his dislike so outwardly noticeable.

But then...you say she's intrusive, so maybe he has to see her a lot. That's not the case with my fil...dh doesn't share a close relationship with him at all.

What was the 'major incident'? That could be quite revealing.

If your DH has valid reason not to want to spend time with your mother, then you have to respect that.

I have valid reason not to spend time with my mil, so sh just sees her without me. Maybe that's what you should go with, stop having your mum for boosts when DH is there if it's going to be so awkward. The only reason my would end up stick in the middle is if he disrespected my wish and tried to get me to see her when he already knows my decision, or if she put pressure on him. Neither of those things would be down to me, so maybe your DH feels similarly.

You may be bringing some of the way you feel on yourself, because it doesn't really matter what other people, think about your DHs non attendance at your mums celebration, and if your DH has valid reason to dislike your mum, then it's fine for her to know that too. He shouldn't have to be completely false regarding someone who is by your own admission, difficult and intrusive

I've had a similar situation with my DP and DM. My DP didn't speak to her for about ten months. TBH DM has no sense of boundaries, is very controlling and cries a great deal and says that we have to tolerate her behaviour because she's suffered so much. As a family we've enabled this far too much. It's quite salutary seeing things from an in-law's point of view. Having said this, there is give and take in these matters. I've had to put up with a hell of a lot of shit from my DP's ex and DSCs over the years, and there's a certain amount that you do for your partner because you don't want them to feel trapped and caught. We would need to hear more details about what your DM has actually done, and whether your MIL is easy, or whether you feel you actually have to make quite a big effort with her too.
But you have my sympathies. It's horrible being caught between conflicting loyalties.

I'm trying not to bore anyone hence the lack of details but I agree it makes it hard to judge!

DM and her DH live a few hours away, we occasionally go there for a day or more often they come here for a day or DD and I stay there (DH never stays now as he hates it which can be a pita e.g. at Xmas). So he has to 'put up with' her maybe 6 - 8 times a year max. She phones/texts me quite often but mainly when DH isn't here.

It's hard to say what he dislikes about her - she is quite controlling and I know he feels she relies on me too much which impacts on our family at times but the flip side of that is she has helped us out a lot (with money - not big amounts but what she can afford, with babysitting, with practical advice and so on.) She does drive me potty with her desire for everything to be her way (from where you sit at the table to what time you leave when you visit her) and her Mrs Bucket behaviour and at times quite irritating personality. But DH knows how stuck in the middle I feel and I don't think it's too much to ask that he grin and bear it a handful of times a year - I could understand if we had to go round there every week or they were always popping in but he can go months without seeing her.

I think the main problem is that they are polar opposites - DM is a stickler for tradition and plans and doing things her way. DH is quite unconventional, hates to follow the crowd and is very definite about his way of doing things.

We're not going on holiday with them (it's just me, DH and DD) but I find it hard to put all this to one side and enjoy a happy family holiday when I feel so resentful of DH (and know I have it all to come back to).

The incident was that their house got flooded in the bad weather this weekend - so I'd say pretty major. Unfortunately there always seems to be some crisis or another but in this case I think DM was within her rights to be flapping and upset.

I do know I need to stop talking to DD about this - it's not so much that I confide in her, more that she is in the middle of it too so it tends to get discussed. But I know it's not at all a good idea to involve her any more than she is already.

Cambridge, did you post about the situation between your DH & DM some time around last Christmas too? Am probably getting confused, but it seemed to ring a bell.

If so - & this seems to chime with what you've written above - there appeared to be two issues.

On the one hand, your DH sounds a bit antisocial, & as if he might not make that much effort even if your mum were really easy to get on with. I would find that difficult, & I certainly agree that it's not unreasonable to expect your partner to make some effort with your family. Your DH's general "arsiness" (sorry, can't think of a better word!) must make things difficult for you, & it would obviously be better if he could support you in dealing with your mum.

On the other hand, your mum sounds very difficult indeed. If you are the poster I'm remembering, she was really overbearing & would basically tell you & DH when she was going to visit, when she expected you to visit her, etc. - essentially not treating either of you like adults. Is that right?

If so, I'm not surprised your DH is trying to have less & less to do with her, & that his resentment is preventing him from treating her sympathetically. My MIL has a tendency to be very overbearing, & if DH wasn't prepared to set boundaries with her himself I'd find it intolerable, TBH. I'm guessing your DH feels that you don't do this, & that you're not working as a team, & is expressing his frustration in a slightly teenage - but nonetheless understandable - way.

I think if my Mum's house got flooded, she'd tell me the next day! I may be wrong but as an adult, I'd never call my family in the middle of the night unless it was to ask if I could stay there!

What were you supposed to DO about her flooding at that time of night

I disliked my MIL intensely...dh had no relationship with her either.
I stopped visiting her about five years ago as I was not going to waste a day of my life with her.

Didn't go to her funeral either.

Why do you think you feel resentful towards your DH rather than towards your mother?

Is he trying to stop you from seeing her or something?

first things first, stop offloading onto your child. She is not your mediator and that is borderline abusive.

secondly your mother sounds like a pain and you should probably just see her without him.

I'm also confused about why you'd even consider going on holiday with your DM given the situation between her & DH. Am I reading that wrongly or are you all going together? It sounds like a nightmare! If people don't get on brilliantly in day-to-day life, that's just going to be intensified on holiday. Did DH play any part at all in this holiday choice?

TBH no one on MN would say YABU if you were saying your MiL was how you discribed your mother so on that reguard I cannot pass judgement until I know exactly her behavour but your DH is not being unreasdonable as if my MiL was difficult / controlling etc I would not want to spend time with her tbh (thankfully my MIL is amazing so i dont have that problem)

You can't force two adults to like each other, your husband is not obligated to spend time with your mother, so you kind of have to suck it up I'm afraid.

Offloading onto your child however, is a totally different kettle of fish.

It is incredibly damaging, believe me. It's wholly inappropriate behaviour and you must stop it. A child of 12 should NEVER be dragged into adult conflict.

I think if my Mum's house got flooded, she'd tell me the next day! I may be wrong but as an adult, I'd never call my family in the middle of the night unless it was to ask if I could stay there!

Woo I don't understand why the OP feels resentment towards her DH either. If he really cannot abide her and there does seem to be genuine problems or conflicts, it actually makes more sense for him to back away and reduce friction. If he went, it would probably cause friction based on her behaviour. It's not like, as far as the OP has indicated, he is stopping the OP from contact or seeing her mother.

I think if my Mum's house got flooded, she'd tell me the next day! I may be wrong but as an adult, I'd never call my family in the middle of the night unless it was to ask if I could stay there!

This ^

I'd be grateful to my DH if he intercepted calls like this and refused to wake me unless my DM was desperately in need of some practical help which couldn't wait until the morning.

I think your DH may have a point.

Gosh! I would object to somebody ringing me during the night for a trivial reason, but being flooded isn't trivial and I imagine the mother was very upset and just wanted to offload. Also, the way I read the post, the husband was still up and about so I don't think it was early hours of the morning, just rather late in the evening, which is a bit different.

I can see the OP's point. I think her husband could perhaps work a bit harder at grinning and bearing his mil's behaviour, for his wife's and daughter's sake.

Sorry, OP, misunderstood about the holiday. Must read more carefully.

I find the general attitude that parents-in-law are optional parts of a marriage to be wrong. So many self centred posts about how people would not 'waste their time ' seeing someone they did not like etc. Well, sorry, but when you marry the pleasures and rewards come with responsibilities. A parent-in-law should have to behave fairly appallingly before you put your partner in the uncomfortable position of ostracising their parents. It used to be called a 'duty visit' when people had a sense of duty.

Now it seems that a lot of people feel you can ostracise an elderly relative merely because you don't enjoy spending time with them. Try and sip from the cup of empathy and think a few years into the future. It might be your children's partners disliking you and trying to stop you seeing your children and grandchildren. Of course, you all think you will be fun in laws and no one could take against you. Statistics are not on your side though.

Agree with everyone else that your DD should be kept firmly out of this.

I also think that you probably need to accept your DH does not want to have a relationship with your DM. I can see why, really. He's not her child, it seems ridiculous that she expects to be able to dictate to either of you. Anyway, you can't force him to have a relationship with her, and it sounds as if it would be better all round if you let that go. Let him cease contact with your mother.

That leaves your relationship with her. There he can't force the issue. It is up to you to decide whether you take her calls or see her, though you and your DH still have to negotiate how that fits in with your family life.

well, to be frank, they both sound as bad as each other. Your DH is absolutely out of order in withholding a phone call for you from her.

Both DH and I find our ageing parents to be a bit of a pain, but as we love each other instead of making the situation harder we help each other out if our parents are doing our heads in. We've just been wrestling with trying to arrange to go and see FIL, and, as always, he's chopped and changed his mind and basically it'll be a 6 hour round trip for 24 hours in his company, when he won't interact with us or DD much.

Them's the breaks. We both had a bit of a moan about it but are now looking to make the best of that weekend. FIL does like us coming up and I want him and DD to have some kind of a relationship, particularly as my own DF is dead.

Your DH doesn't have to see his MIL much, and, as you have said, he has benefitted from her generosity in the past. People are saying that your DH and DD should be you're Number 1 priority - well, same for him, his wife and child should be his. She's not toxic, just a bit painful, is how I'm reading it. Well, maybe MN thinks you should ditch your ageing parents when they get to be like that, but I don't agree.

Your DH actually sounds quite like your DM - both of them want things doing their way and then there's you stuck in the middle.

I don't think your DH should be rude to her and I would think less of someone who couldn't put themselves out for something like that. However he's a grown up so I wouldn't/couldn't force him.

Plus if your DH has been happy to take her money/babysitting - he really should be polite to her on the seemingly very few occasions he actually sees her.