Intolerable situation with DH and DM - who is BU?

[CambridgeBlue]

I'll try to keep this brief - basically DH can't stand DM. I am the first to admit she can be difficult and at times very irritating. She falls out with various friends/family members, has absolutely no tact and can be pretty self centred. Trying to keep it balanced I would also say that life has dealt her some pretty crap cards but she is well-meaning, generous and would do pretty much anything for her family.

DH has never had much time for her but lately the situation has got completely out of hand. He will barely speak to her if she visits, never comes with us if we go to visit them and just makes it obvious he can't stand her. I have some sympathy as she can be quite intrusive (always turns to me, never DB ) but I think you have to make some allowances when you marry into a family - I could never imagine behaving to MIL as he does to DM.

Two things lately have brought this to a head - first is that DM has a big birthday this year and DH has flatly refused to attend the celebration. I have accepted this because I know DD and I will have a better time without him but it looks awful to other people and just emphasises to DM that despite me making excuses for his behaviour, he does actually dislike her.

Secondly, they had quite a major incident at home a few days ago which led to DM calling me lateish one evening in tears. I was asleep, DH wouldn't wake me (luckily the phone had so I did take the call) and was extremely unsympathetic. I appreciate late night calls scare the crap out of you and maybe there was no need to ring at that time but again, I just can't imagine being so unkind to someone.

I just don't know what to do. I have made a conscious effort lately to stand up to DM when she is being unreasonable but at the end of the day she is my mother, she is getting older, is not in great health and I have no choice but to be there for her. DH can be quite judgy and antisocial with other people but never as bad as this.

It's ruining my relationship with DH as I feel completely stuck in the middle (we are pretty happy the rest of the time, not perfect but what relationship is?) What's worse is that DD is getting old enough to see both sides and she feels stuck in the middle too. I find myself offloading on her because she is the only one who understands but that's not right as she is too young to have to deal with such crap (she's 12).

We're supposed to be off on holiday in a few days but I feel totally fed up at the thought of playing happy families for a week - I try to put things out of my head and keep the 2 'sides' separate as much as possible but it's just not working any more.

I think I probably did Loon although I may have name changed. It's ongoing unfortunately and Xmas is always a particularly tricky time :(.

DH is definitely antisocial (arsiness is spot on!) and his lack of willingness to do things he doesn't want extends to other family and friends too - DD and I do a lot without him and he has very little social life although he doesn't seem to mind especially.

DM is definitely hard work - the fact that she has fallen out with other people proves it's not just us. She doesn't exactly tell us what to do but if things don't happen as she wants she always finds a way of letting you know even if it's just saying 'oh the day's gone so quickly' - which she would explain if challenged as 'I just enjoy spending time with you' but which DH (and increasingly me) see as 'you haven't stayed as long as I decided you should'.

I hesitate to make out that I am anything special but I actually think they are both jealous of the relationship the other has with me. DH didn't really have any serious girlfriends before we got together even though he was quite old as that sort of thing goes. Our family history means DM has reason to be afraid of 'losing' me.

Where does it say the DH is stopping his MIL from seeing the grandchildren????

Life is too short to waste it with people who suck the lifeblood out of you. OP herself admits her DM is overbearing and controlling.

I think OP you are going to have to just accept that they don't get on and stop obsessing about it. 8 times a year is a lot to see someone you cannot stand, especially if it is in your own home.

They don't get on and have clearly given up trying so both are being a bit unreasonable, but your expectations of your DH are much higher than of your DM. You expect him to put up with a lot more and you accept a lot more crap from her so in that respect, you are being unreasonable.

Your husband need to get with the programme. I am single now but xp and my family were different kinds of people but he would not have dared to act badly because he knew he would be dealing with me afterwards. Put him straight on the matter for good, your mother sounds like basically a kind person, her money is certainly good enough.
One day you won't have a mother anymore and he won't have a problem but till then he needs to learn some manners and suck it up for your sake.

The other way round posters generally say your DH needs to stand up to his mother and back you as DW. Going No contact would be mentioned as would leaving him because he's never going to be free of his controlling mother.

The flood thing is unfortunate but your mother seems to cry wolf a lot so....

I wouldn't worry so much about it looking awful if your DH does not go to her party. Presumably the people attending know your mum and have been on the wrong end of her fallings out at some point.

Waffly I totally agree if the shoe was on the other foot, he would be expected to back his wife rather than his mother

chubbleigh respectfully, I completely disagree. He does not need 'to get with the programme', he's an adult. He can moderate his own behaviour. I think as an adult it's important to known when to withdraw from relationships that don't make you happy in any way.

But they also know her DH and he's sounding less ummm nice by the post sadly.

I really feel for the OP - she really is stuck in the middle. And I'd be wary of a DH who couldn't make the effort with many friends/people really as it doesn't sound like its just his mil he has a problem with.

I don't get on fabulously with my dad - he's very annoying at times, and I know my DP finds him irritating. But it really pisses me off when he makes it clear he'd rather my Dad doesn't come to stay etc. We see his family all the time! And they're nice and everything, but still. I feel like he could make more of an effort to pretend to like him. I think it's fine for you to agree in private that your mum is a PITA, but your DH should be more grown up about how he behaves towards her, if she hasn't done anything really offensive (and it doesn't sound like she has, more like a personality clash).

I agree about offloading onto your daughter - my mum did this constantly when she disagreed with my dad, and it spoiled our relationship (mine and my dad's).

It's ruining my relationship with DH as I feel completely stuck in the middle (we are pretty happy the rest of the time, not perfect but what relationship is?)

Are you sure that your relationship is 'pretty happy the rest of the time'?
I can understand that your DH doesn't like your DM and doesn't want to spend time with her. But refusing to wake you when she called even though you were happy to take the call screams that he is more interested in stopping your DM from speaking to you because he could than he is in putting your needs and wants first.

Either your DH does not know you well enough to know that you would be happy to take the call from your mother or he does know that but wanted to control the situation.

Your DM sounds like very hard work and you and your DH should be able to agree a middle ground where you support each other rather than make each other cross.

Sorry to say this Cambridge, but I think you are being a bit of a dramallama about it all. It's not an intolerable situation, you have two relatives who simply just don't get on and your husband has simply decided to opt out of the relationship completely.

YOU are making the situation intolerable for yourself and YOU are allowing it to affect your marriage by an unreasonable expectation that everyone should get along. It's not that important in the grand scheme of things. It would be much worse if she lived around the corner.

Back off. Tell your mother that "Yes, DH does not like you very much" and tell her why if she wants to know. Kindly obviously.

Tell your husband what "Larrygrylls* said. I agree completely. He is being unreasonable by refusing all contact with someone who is essentially just fussy, self centred and irritating. 2-4 times a year max

Just tell people that "DH doesn't like parties". They'll all assume he is agoraphobic or something which by the sound of it, he won't mind a bit.

OP i understand completly .my husband could,nt stand my mother and the feeling was mutual ..i went to family celebrations without hubby .if my hubby answered the phone .she would say is my daughter there .then she would say to me .is that bastard not working today .god it was a night mare .at christmas one year we went to inlaws for dinner next year me and boys went to my parents and hubby sat with his tv dinner this went on for 20 years until she passed away last year ..i am sorry but i seperated my life with my mother and life with my hubby .it never affected my marriage because they were fighting not me .my hubby has aspergers .my mother could not take his bizzareness .where as i find him quirky my mother found him dam wierd .

If I'm honest neither my relationship with DM or with DH is how I'd like them to be but life's not perfect is it?

DM is partly the way she is due to circumstances - she's had so much drama in her life that I don't think she knows how to live without it and tries to control people for fear of more bad things happening not realising that she just annoys and alienates them instead. Even her DH recognises this so it's not just me.

DH can be lovely and kind but his lack of social life (or wish for one) and stubbornness about living life as a family in the way most people do both worry me increasingly.

Oh God treadsoftly that's my worst nightmare - I'm turning into DM! It just feels so intrusive and probably more important than it really is, there's nobody I can talk to about it in real life as 2 of the people I am closest to are those involved.

I've really tried to keep the 2 areas of my life separate, I rarely ask DH to get involved any more and DD and I go our own way. But things keep happening that make me think this bloody situation needs resolving once and for all - I've just got no idea how!

OP you have to accept you cannot resolve it. You cannot control everything/everyone.

Sometimes people don't get on and you just have to find a way around it. I agree with tread that you are being a dramallama about this.

I am that you say it is going to badly affect your family holiday. For your sake, DH sake and DD sake, I am officially handing you a grip.

Have a lovely break and try to see that the relationship between DH and DM is actually nothing to do with you.

I feel sorry for you OP. You are stuck in the middle. Problem is, as I'm sure you realise, you can't make anyone like other people. And both your DH and DM sound a bit needy. Especially the example of calling after flooding when she wasn't asking for practical help. Didn't you say she has a partner? Surely she'd rely on them on that occasion? Difficult.

Your relationship with your DM is yours, his is his. Do what you feel you need to for your Mum but I really wouldn't expect anything from DH. The more fuss you make about it, the less likely he is ever to relent and it will create trouble for you both.

Agree very much about how you must stop saying anything at all about this to your dd. It's really really unfair. I can remember something one of my parents told me about their relationship when I was about 12 (nothing terrible but involved some family awkwardness) and I've never forgotten it. It made me very uncomfortable at the time,

So, if I am reading this correctly

1. your DM "only" sees you approx 8 times a year. So basically around every 6 weeks. Frequent calls and texts in between. Is that weekly/daily or several times an hour
2. She is married and so has other adult company in her life
3. She has a son but he does not see her so regularly or perhaps indulge her with such regular chats/texts. Either way, her neediness is more indulged by you
4. She irritates the backside out of your husband to the point where he can no longer stand to be in her company.
5. DH is concerning you as he is becoming profoundly antisocial

YOU have spent your life (I get the impression there is a backstory if she is scared of losing you) trying to please her/reassure her. Did your Dad die suddenly/walk out on his marriage out of the blue?

Step 1. Tell DH to suck it up, its a big birthday and you want to be able to socialise with friends and family and have someone keep a close eye on DD so she doesn't start on the wkd's, and take her to the hotel at a reasonable hour.
Step 2. Use the holiday with your family to disconnect. Tell your mum that you don't have a phone signal and only reply once a week. If she's the type to see if her messages have delivered, just switch it off. Have a chat to DH, leave your Mum completely out of it. It's not healthy to be terribly antisocial and it risks leaving you or DD terribly isolated in the event of his/your death if you have not kept in contact with friends and family
Step 3. Tell your brother to pull his finger out and make more of an effort
Step 4. Think about why this is upsetting you quite so much. Is it because she is also driving you nuts and it would be nice to share the obligation/duty with someone you can talk to in RL who won't instantly throw it back at you with a "don't see her then". Why can't you have this relationship with your brother. I regularly have a moan to siblings about my mad parents. It doesn't mean I hate them, just that every so often I could cheerfully shoot them but they mean well and they are mostly very nice
Step 5. DD is 12. Old enough to go to Granny's for the odd visit by herself in the holidays if they get on well?

Forget about the "situation". Have a lovely holiday with your family and have a think about Step 4 would be my advice.

Thanks all, I have taken on board all the advice and things feel a little bit clearer now - it's absolutely true that there's nothing I can do to change any of this so I will have to stop trying for my sake and more importantly DD's (I feel really bad about her being put in any sort of awkward position by me or anyone else).

I still feel it will hang over our holiday but I will just have to make sure it doesn't and try not to resent being the only one prepared to act like a mature adult in all this.

I am officially receiving that grip along with a healthy dose of perspective which can be really hard to get until you talk things over with a bunch of sensible people online :)

I think your dh is being pretty childish. He doesn't have to see her much and should be able to be pleasant when he does. My dp doesn't care much for my family and they probably don't like him much either but they make an effort for mine and the childrens sake and I think that is reasonable. I think you need to call him on it and say how upset you are. I think it smacks of a lack of respect for you to behave unpleasantly. He also has no right to be unkind and refuse to wake you if your parents call. I am betting that should something horrible like flooding happened to you and your dh he would be happy to accept help and childcare from your mum and would indeed expect their help.

Hmmm.... having seen the number of MIL threads where the MIL is controlling or expects everything to be her way and everyone goes, "don't put up with it" or "get your husband to grow a pair and tell her to stop doing X, Y or Z" I find myself wondering a bit about this thread.

Is there a difference about what is acceptable for a woman to put up with, with her in laws and what her husband must put up with?

In the MIL threads, the themes is almost universally about your first loyalty being to your partner... yet this seems to almost be the opposite.

For this reason, I think I would say, you need to speak to your husband more about this, and decide exactly what the issue is, and support him in that. You can still have a relationship with your mother, but I think you do need to respect how your husband feels, even if its difficult and not try and make him have a relationship with your mother, if they really don't get on.

I do have some sympathies with you and it is a prickly situation, but you really cannot control whether or not they get on, and quite clearly they don't.

Whilst I did usually rub along reasonably well with my MIL, I wouldn't say that we were close. There were some aspects of her character that irritated me, and I am sure (in fact I know) that some things about me irritated her. I still liked her and admired much about her though, and was very sad when she died earlier this year. Sometimes we would visit her all together as a family, sometimes my husband went on his own and sometimes he would take whichever of our three daughters was keen to go that weekend.

My husband and my parents get along socially reasonably well and enjoy each other's company. They don't spend masses of time with each other though, and we live about a 3 hour drive apart from them. Sometimes I go to see them on my own, and occasionally we go as a family too.

Let it go and step back a bit. Whilst I think that ideally your husband should be a little more flexible and not so totally against spending time with your mother, he does not seem inclined to do so. If you are more relaxed without him there when you are with your mum, and he is more relaxed not going, then I don't see the problem and wouldn't make it into an even bigger issue.

You really can't force people to gel perfectly together, even if they are your husband or your other family. All you can really ask for is the odd little bit of understanding or give and take once in a blue moon if an urgent situation warrants it. Even then, don't hold your breath.

TreadSoftly I only saw your post after I had written the above - you are very perceptive!

All of 1- 5 are correct and due to various family crap - death, divorce, abuse being a drama queen - I do feel I've spent a lot of my life being there for DM, maybe more than I should be expected to.

I will definitely give your advice in Step 4 some thought, it makes a lot of sense.

Thanks :)

Tobeabat - you could have a point, as I said I really worry about going down the same path as DM. Need to watch myself!