Intolerable situation with DH and DM - who is BU?

[CambridgeBlue]

I'll try to keep this brief - basically DH can't stand DM. I am the first to admit she can be difficult and at times very irritating. She falls out with various friends/family members, has absolutely no tact and can be pretty self centred. Trying to keep it balanced I would also say that life has dealt her some pretty crap cards but she is well-meaning, generous and would do pretty much anything for her family.

DH has never had much time for her but lately the situation has got completely out of hand. He will barely speak to her if she visits, never comes with us if we go to visit them and just makes it obvious he can't stand her. I have some sympathy as she can be quite intrusive (always turns to me, never DB ) but I think you have to make some allowances when you marry into a family - I could never imagine behaving to MIL as he does to DM.

Two things lately have brought this to a head - first is that DM has a big birthday this year and DH has flatly refused to attend the celebration. I have accepted this because I know DD and I will have a better time without him but it looks awful to other people and just emphasises to DM that despite me making excuses for his behaviour, he does actually dislike her.

Secondly, they had quite a major incident at home a few days ago which led to DM calling me lateish one evening in tears. I was asleep, DH wouldn't wake me (luckily the phone had so I did take the call) and was extremely unsympathetic. I appreciate late night calls scare the crap out of you and maybe there was no need to ring at that time but again, I just can't imagine being so unkind to someone.

I just don't know what to do. I have made a conscious effort lately to stand up to DM when she is being unreasonable but at the end of the day she is my mother, she is getting older, is not in great health and I have no choice but to be there for her. DH can be quite judgy and antisocial with other people but never as bad as this.

It's ruining my relationship with DH as I feel completely stuck in the middle (we are pretty happy the rest of the time, not perfect but what relationship is?) What's worse is that DD is getting old enough to see both sides and she feels stuck in the middle too. I find myself offloading on her because she is the only one who understands but that's not right as she is too young to have to deal with such crap (she's 12).

We're supposed to be off on holiday in a few days but I feel totally fed up at the thought of playing happy families for a week - I try to put things out of my head and keep the 2 'sides' separate as much as possible but it's just not working any more.

Well said Larrygrylls I totally agree.

I think you are far too tolerant of both of them and the way they interact individually with you but your focus appears to be with the way they interact with each other, which isn't your responsibility. It very much sounds like your resentment stems from the feeling some might say jealousy, that like your DB, your H gets away with not having to deal with your mother as much as you do. However, you are partly responsible for the relationship you have with your mother and if she gets too much, you too have the option to disengage.

Given the dynamic between you and your mother, your description of her behaviour could be viewed as generous. Personally, I would avoid the company of someone I didn't like and I would view attending their birthday celebrations as hypocritical as well as painful.

I think birthday bashes and 6-8 encounters a year is a bit much, given the characters of the individuals concerned and isn't a realistic starting point for negotiations. Your H's attitude towards your mother might not be an extension of his general withdrawal from family life. It could be just a character clash and taking it personally, will of course lead to resentment. However, your H's behaviour at home and his withdrawal from the nuclear family needs discussing.

I think everyone in this story needs an attitude adjustment and there's no better place to begin than with yourself.

Thanks again for all the replies, I realise nothing's going to change but my attitude to it can - lots to think about.

I have just quickly read through your posts again, and it strikes me that you have made no mention of your DH's family at all. Do you see them as frequently as you see your DM? Could your DH feel as though his family is being pushed out?

I like my PIL, but I got very annoyed with DH recently when he invited them to join us for a day of our visit to London in a few weeks (they live in the SE). This was partly because it's our only break this year, and partly because I had been arranging to see my sisters during the visit (who I haven't seen since last summer), while we saw PIL at the start of July. I had to explain to DH that while I like his parents, I felt seeing my family should be the priority. I'm now going to meet my sisters for dinner while he has dinner with his parents...

The other thing I'm wondering about is how much you complain about your DM. My FIL often calls DH just before he starts work or just before he's about to leave, even though PIL are retired and DH has worked 9-5 Mon-Fri for years. DH complains about this, but whenever I suggest letting it go to voicemail he says 'But it could be an emergency!'. The one time it was an emergency and he didn't answer the phone, MIL then called me to let us know about it.

I've got tired of him complaining when he doesn't do anything about it - does this apply to you?

I htink you need to step up and show your DH that you support him and put him first. When you're with your DM and DH, do you call your DM out when she's rude or controlling to him? Or do you quietly say nothing? If the latter then YABVU - your DM is not your primary family, your DH is and you should be putting him first. That's not to say you shouldn't see your DM, but it's not ok to allow her to behave the way she does without saying anything to her. I'd be livid if my DH allowed my MIL to behave the way your DM does and didn't say anything to her.

I think you should sit your DM down and tell her how her behaviour is upsetting you both, and suggest how she might change things so you all get on better.

I do understand your annoyance with your DH's anti-social tendencies, but that's a completely separate issue to his refusal to see your DM - if I were him, I'd refuse to see her too (and I'm extremely social).

Ellie PILs only live in the next village so it's much easier to just pop in for a quick cuppa whereas with my lot it's always less spontaneous and for a longer amount of time because they are further away. PILs have their moments too but are generally much less demanding than my family and they don't really do big get-togethers or occasions.

Stackladys I think maybe I do grumble but not do much about it, I find it really hard to stand up to DM - to anyone actually, I am a wuss and hate confrontation.

I am a wuss and hate confrontation. That's where you start. The resentment you feel towards your H could be the consequence of your 'I put up with far more of her crap so you shouldn't get to opt out' martyr tendencies. Conflict can't be avoided all the time and the pressure of trying, can be very destructive.

But perhaps you can change things without confrontation.

I stopped wearing myself out attempting to 'help' DB (after decades of it). He is just the type of person that needs to seriously unload about every little thing in his life (divorced not surprisingly). Cannot make a decision and everything is a crises. But I now let him unload (grudgingly), but don't respond, don't take it on as a problem that I must help to solve, don't 'help'.

The upshot is that we have a much better relationship. Are more friends now than waste of space DB and exhausted DSis.

So you should decide how much and how often you want to go to see your DM and stick to it, no being coerced to call in, decide how often she can come to yours (not often) and when she rings answer if you have time to deal with it or just let it go to ansaphone. Then stick to this.

I hope you then find that then when you do spend time together it is pleasant and not pia duty. Ditto phone calls.

That's good advice dozie. My relationship with my mother improved a lot when I did that. I was quite blunt about it sometimes, though always kindly, I hope. I stopped reassuring her all the time. I try to be a shoulder to cry on when needed but not at the expense of my own emotional well being or having time for my children.

I think that they should both make more effort to be at least civil for the sake of OP.

I don't see why it should be all up to her husband to put up with his MIL as she is when OP finds her hard work!

As for the phone call, hard to say.

If I was in bed my husband wouldn't necessarily wake me, but would ask what it was about.

I don't enjoy time with my ILs, but I tolerate it!

It could be more that the husband is pissed off with the way OP is treated by her mum & the knock on effect on him & their daughter.

Do you think you could actually discuss the situation with your DH? Tell him you recognise that you need some more boundaries with your DM and you would like his support with that and in turn that he will commit to seeing her twice a year without fuss??

Ask him what he would like to change that is feasible/make him able to be more tolerant.

It could just be that she phones less/leans on you less which wouldn't be an unreasonable request. Perhaps he is concerned at what the future holds - perhaps that your DM will insist on moving in and you won't say no...

mathanxiety
"Your H is being a rude, entitled, immature, selfish arse."

All because he won't put up with being shit on by his MiL.

I agree with Math!

Not giving her a phone call at 11 pm?! Immature and rude. I'd be furious with DH.

Not going to her birthday? Immature and rude. Again, I would be spitting nails if it were my DH.

Yes, the mother sounds hard work. So is my mother. So is my MIL occasionally, though mostly she's pretty good.

Have I missed something? (And I may have, my phone is the worst today). Is the mother downright abusive? Awful to the OPs daughter?

The OP does need to, from the sound of it, tell her mother to back off, or say "that doesn't work" for things.

But if she's just a regular arsey Hyacinth type mother, then again, around Christmas and her birthday I think the DH needs to stop being such a fucking princess.

When was he shit on by his MIL-I didn't see it-just that she can be a PITA sometimes and slightly dependent on her daughter.
I get that she gets on his nerves but he doesn't need to see her often-just on social occasions when he can talk to other people.
Both sound a bit inconsiderate to OP imo.

I know my DM gets on my DH's nerves and she has been fairly unpleasant about him in the past ( same with my SIL)
My Dh isn't particularly known for being accommodating bur he does show up for "occasions" etc for my sake-also SIL visits occasionally.
They just ignore a lot

so the DH is a imature arse for not putting up with a difficult / pain in the arse mother in law where as on here a female would not have to put up with that sort of treatment so shame on you all for being such bloody hypocrites

If advice is good for the goose (the women avioding pain in the arse mother in law) it should damn right be good for the gander (the male avioding the pain in the arse mother in law) otherwise you a bloody hypocrite and its one of the few things I cant stand is a bloody hypocrite

i think your dm is leaning on you too much. i think your dh is feeling that he and your dd don't come first. you are always placating / worrying about her. i do actually think this is the wrong way around! your dm has her dh and your db too.

i think you should start being less available for her.

i think your dh should make an effort for her birthday at the very minimum. he doesn't even have to speak to her, just be there to help with kids and show his face. if she were abusive, fine. go nc. but she isn't, she's just a pita.

your dh needs to sort out his social life, but that is something he needs to be on board with. you could tell him you're worried about it.

you've had a huge amount of really good advice here. i hope some of it helps you through.

I would say the same to a DIL- if someone is a basically well-meaning PITA tolerate low contact with them.
If they are actually abusive and mess with your children's heads/ undermine or insult you then don't tolerate them.
All this woman has done is occasionally phone at stupid o'clock and be a bit tactless at times (agree it depends what that means!)
I'm not a hypocrite-for both genders ther is a line between a personality clash and major boundary invasion.

Sometimes every word out of my mother's mouth is insufferable (gossipy judgement of others) but I just tell her! Or did before she got too old to take it in!

Very much agree with Eddielizard-more boundaries for your Mum a bit more flexibility from DH-assert yourself OP neither will like it at first but it will be more comfortable for you in the long run

Worried I'm with Drudge. I would say the exact same thing to a woman in this scenario. Hypocrite I ain't.

If the mother were abusive or horribly toxic that's one thing but I have seen no evidence of that.

The mother needs to learn some boundaries and the DH needs to learn when to suck it up.

This goes way beyond avoiding, Worridmum, and the MIL doesn't sound anything like some of the really offensive MILs depicted here. Like Cheerful, I am wondering what I have missed here.

How is she shitting on him? She calls to say her house is flooded, at 11 pm? Seriously -- this is an example of shitting on someone?

Meanwhile, an adult refuses to go to someone else's birthday celebration -- is he trying to teach her a lesson? Does he expect her to notice his absence and mend her ways when he refuses to grace her birthday or her table at Christmas with his hallowed presence?

This is not about women getting away with something while men are expected to suck it up. It's about an alleged adult thinking he has a right to opt out of family life like some sulking teenager who is too wrapped up in his or her preciousness and angst.

As far as I can see he is going by the advice that many on here have told many women.

Go nc, do not stop your DP or DC from seeing the MiL unless they start saying bad things about you.

As for she doesn't sound like "some of the really offensive MILs depicted here", who has the right to say how much he should put up with?

(I apologise for posting shitting on, I could have worded it much better)

who has the right to say how much he should put up with?

What a bizarre comment. We'd never say anything on MN if that were the case! We all have the right to an opinion on how much he SHOULD put up with, for his wife's sake.

As others have said if it is just general PITA stuff, he needs to suck it up occasionally for the sake of his dd and his wife.

I do also agree with posters who say it may be a reaction to how involved the OP is with her Mum. Maybe he is not self aware enough to have realised this and communicate it. I think if the OP had more boundaries with her Mum, she could ask more of her dh in tolerating her Mum. Perhaps this is the approach you could take, OP.

• Apologise for allowing your Mum to be as invasive as she possibly has been.
• Outline to your dh some of the boundaries you are going to put in place (some good ideas above)
• Tell your dh how hurt it makes you feel that he is not more tolerant of your Mum
• Make some requests for how he can have minimal contact eg. 3-4x per year, Christmas, big party

He isn't limiting his avoidance to just the MIL. He has decided he can opt out of anything he doesn't feel like doing, to the extent that the OP has had to carve out a separate social life for her and her DD. They don't do social things as a family. He is a general all round curmudgeon.

mathsanxiety I agree with you. The mum in question may be a pain in the butt, but he is also one too. Not attending a big birthday, not acknowledging her when she comes around, I'm sorry I would find this massively disrespectful to my mum.

Everyone saying 'you are now the primary unit' - true to a point, but if my husband started, without real justification to be nasty to a family member of mine, I would start to dislike him very much indeed.

Part of being in a relationship is helping support your partner. It is not supporting the wife in this situation at all- he's creating a whole load of trouble. He could easily avoid the MIL most of the time, and then plaster on a smile a few times a year. Heck, that's what I do with my MIL because if I started ignoring her, not attending key events and so on, it would cause so much ill-feeling.

I am not surprised you feel bad towards your husband OP, although I suspect this runs deeper than just towards you mother, I bet he's grumpy and anti-social all round, and the thought of having another 20/30 years of that probably isn't very inviting.

Incidentally OP's dh sounds a bit like my BIL and he is getting worse as he gets older. But he DOES come to Christmas, he does attend family events even though he is antisocial and hates noise/ chaos yes, he's probably on the spectrum, but he does it because he loves his wife. Even though we can tell it's a bit painful for him, we appreciate the effort he makes.