Intolerable situation with DH and DM - who is BU?

[CambridgeBlue]

I'll try to keep this brief - basically DH can't stand DM. I am the first to admit she can be difficult and at times very irritating. She falls out with various friends/family members, has absolutely no tact and can be pretty self centred. Trying to keep it balanced I would also say that life has dealt her some pretty crap cards but she is well-meaning, generous and would do pretty much anything for her family.

DH has never had much time for her but lately the situation has got completely out of hand. He will barely speak to her if she visits, never comes with us if we go to visit them and just makes it obvious he can't stand her. I have some sympathy as she can be quite intrusive (always turns to me, never DB ) but I think you have to make some allowances when you marry into a family - I could never imagine behaving to MIL as he does to DM.

Two things lately have brought this to a head - first is that DM has a big birthday this year and DH has flatly refused to attend the celebration. I have accepted this because I know DD and I will have a better time without him but it looks awful to other people and just emphasises to DM that despite me making excuses for his behaviour, he does actually dislike her.

Secondly, they had quite a major incident at home a few days ago which led to DM calling me lateish one evening in tears. I was asleep, DH wouldn't wake me (luckily the phone had so I did take the call) and was extremely unsympathetic. I appreciate late night calls scare the crap out of you and maybe there was no need to ring at that time but again, I just can't imagine being so unkind to someone.

I just don't know what to do. I have made a conscious effort lately to stand up to DM when she is being unreasonable but at the end of the day she is my mother, she is getting older, is not in great health and I have no choice but to be there for her. DH can be quite judgy and antisocial with other people but never as bad as this.

It's ruining my relationship with DH as I feel completely stuck in the middle (we are pretty happy the rest of the time, not perfect but what relationship is?) What's worse is that DD is getting old enough to see both sides and she feels stuck in the middle too. I find myself offloading on her because she is the only one who understands but that's not right as she is too young to have to deal with such crap (she's 12).

We're supposed to be off on holiday in a few days but I feel totally fed up at the thought of playing happy families for a week - I try to put things out of my head and keep the 2 'sides' separate as much as possible but it's just not working any more.

So your DH can't even be civil to your DM on the few occasions a year that he would be in her company?

Even though she has helped you out in the past?

She may be overbearing and demanding, but at least it's at a distance, she's not round the corner.

My take on it is that he's somewhat unkind.

I think looking after parents is very tied up with modeling good social behaviour to children. So does your partner believe that when your child grows up and finds a partner of her own, she should just cast off her own parents if that's what her other half wants her to do?

I don't think I could respect a partner who wasn't helping me to find the right balance in terms of my relationship with my parents.

Similarly if I hadn't helped my partner to care for his children by a previous relationship, and wasn't helping him to support his father-in-law, I don't think we'd still be together.

I don't think marriage is about two people in a little box, controlling one another - and perhaps looking after a joint child. It's about being part of a wider network, and trying to support each other with relationships generally.

I don't know about unkind. It depends.

My DM is a lovely woman with a few difficult tendencies. I don't put up with them or expect my husband to. There are boundaries. I take charge of telling my mother where these are. My DH makes the effort (it's always a bit of an effort when it's not your own parent) to get on with her. But that's the quid pro quo.

If I didn't police the boundaries and my mother's tendency to control and make emotional demands ran unchecked, then my husband's willingness to spend time with her and be a friendly and dutiful son-in-law would reduce pretty dramatically.

I often think mil's get a very hard time on here, so my advice would be the same if it was the wife moaning about her mil.

I hate the whole 'we're your family now' thing that gets said on here. Unless the parent has been truly abusive then I think as adults we just have to accept that sometimes we have to do some stuff/spend time with people we wouldn't necessarily choose to, but that's part of being a grown up.

I also think having a very anti-social partner is very hard work and wonder if Cambridge is worried about the holiday as she'll get more time to think about her relationship with her DH.

FWIW I think that being badly flooded is frightening and traumatic, and don't think that, on that occasion, it was UR of your mother to call you. You say it was lateish which I'm assuming is 11ish? rather than 2 or 3 in the morning.

I think being flooded is awful but most people wouldn't disturb or worry their family unless they needed direct assistance.

I'm not keen either, but it is what is said when the shoe is on the other foot.

but I don't think one can dictate another person's reaction to something like a flood. If she's got into the habit of sharing everything with her daughter then in a traumatic situation like that, that's what she'll do. But then, unlike many MNers, I don't think that people should be 100% self-sufficient.

Tam of course one can't dictate another person's reaction but taken in context, her late night phone call seems to have been less well recieved because of the history.
We were wondering if the DH was unreasonable to refuse to put her through.

I agree with marianne
I would resent my partner if he didn't support me in spending time with my own family. Actually it's not I would but I have resented DH for doing that. And yes it does spill onto other areas because resentment affects the whole of the relationship.

I also have learnt that you need some flexibility there. A big birthday? He should make the effort. Accepting call in the middle of the night? Friends of the person/circumstances. Eg if it was a very able person no I'm sure they could have waited. My elderly gran for whom anything and everything is a HUGE issue, that's different.
Christmas? Definitively need to make an effort. At other times? He probably should be excused.

The way my BIL sorted a similar situation (no idea what is at the origin of the issue) is that he is there for Christmas and maybe another yearly occasion. Otherwise, dsil comes with the dcs on her own.

Why do DMs and MILs get such different treatment.
If it was the other way round the man would be told to "man up" support his wife over his mother and there would be talk of NC.

I prefer the more balanced view here-she sounds a pita and he can't be forced to like her but very occasional contact wouldn't kill him. I think he could show you a bit more consideration but do set boundaries for your Mum and don't expect too much from him.
Is your Mum very elderly-some old people do start to get upset and panic easily.

And YY tam.
Why on earth does one think he can decide if the call worth taking when it isn't for him??

And yes to the bring self sufficient. It appears on MN that as sodas you have reached your 18th birthday you should be completely self sufficient.
Which is IMO so so far from the truth because we are all dependent on each other.
And yes that includes family, whether you like or it not.

To those who are saying 'well you chose your partner. He is your family now and should have priority' I would say that it's quite common to get divorced to see said family disappearing whereas your family as father and mother will always be your family. So maybe these are the people that you need to take care about. You can't ditch them and then a few years later ask fir their support when things go per shape in your life (eg illness and you need done childcare, divorce and you need a shoulder to cry etc etc)

Your DH has every right not to have much to do with your Mum if she is difficult and they don't get on. What is the point of them spending time together if it ends in a row or bad feeling. And she was out of order phoning late at night if it wasn't an emergency if she doesn't usually phone at that time. Soryy I am agreeing with your DH on this one. But I realise that it must be difficult for you.

Don't let your Mother make you unhappy and come between you and your DH. It's a path to disaster.

DH can be lovely and kind but his lack of social life (or wish for one) and stubbornness about living life as a family in the way most people do both worry me increasingly

This reads to me as "DH can be lovely but things that didn't used to bother me when we got together are really grating now and I'm starting to resent his attitude to life and wish he would change his personality to better suit my needs. Why can't he just live like a normal person would?"

Unless your DH has undergone a major personality change then UABVVU to suddenly decide his behaviour is not to your liking now.

You have grown up with your mother being difficult and have developed a coping strategy pandering to her demands. Your H hasn't grown up with her and his coping strategy of dealing with her is avoidance. Your lack of boundaries and pandering to your DM has left you in this position and rather than acknowledge your role in this, you've put blame on your H.

It's telling that your mother's unpleasant characteristics are pretty much dismissed and your H's are an example of his lack of love/ disrespect for you.

The major problem here is the dynamic between you and your mother, not your H's resistance to falling 'into line'. Confiding burdening your daughter with your problems is a continuation of an unhealthy dynamic.

Cambridge, may I ask, has your dh's antisocial behaviour and tolerance of others become progressively worse in recent years? Does he get angry easily? Do you and dd do things without him because he refuses to do them with you and then does he resent you for doing them anyway? Do you and your dd do a fair bit of treading on eggshells around him? Just wondering .......

I think Isetan explains it very well...

I have a similar situation with my FIL. I really don't like him as I think he is a fairly unpleasant person. My DP on the other hand (certainly used to) hero worship him a bit.

We ended up in couples counselling due to our completely different expectations. The only real 'breakthrough' was when DP acknowledged that I didn't have to love his parents in order to demonstrate how much I loved him (that really, genuinly was his expectation).

Your husband is not perfect but it is unfair to just expect him to change to make the situation easier. The very solid belief that my DP had that everything would be ok if I just put up and shut up caused all sorts of resentment from both of us. I was (and still am to a degree) hurt that a) I had been introduced to this man with no warning as to what a git he was so was unable to adjust my expectations and behaviour appropriately and b) that DP expected me to modify my behaviour but literally dropped his jaw at the suggestion that maybe his father could too.

This attitude made my reactions to visits worse and worse (how would you feel visiting your DPs parent's knowing that if there was any disagreement with them your partner who you loved would blame only you?) and more and more tense. That was why we decided to go to counselling.

DPs expectations of the relationship between me and his parents had to be seriously revised before we could progress at all to finding a mutually agreeable solution to visits.

I still don't like his Dad for what I believe to be reasonable reasons, but now the expectation of the relationship is less it bothers me a lot less, I am less pissed off resentful and stressed and everything is a bit easier when we see them and in mine and DPs relationship too.

He hasn't undergone a major personality change but he was more outgoing and sociable when he was trying to impress me we first got together. Over the years he has become more stubborn and determined not to do anything he doesn't want to. His parents are very narrow-minded and live quite sheltered lives so I worry about him going the same way.

I see where you're going with that oldie and don't think it hasn't crossed my mind that my relationship is pretty crap at times. At the moment the good outweighs the bad but I'm not sure how long that will be the case.

I can see it sounds as though I accept DM's behaviour but not DH's but maybe I haven't expressed myself very well - I have really made an effort to keep both of them happy, standing up to DM when I'd rather not and pandering to DH when he's behaving like a spoilt child. I don't see either of them as being right or wrong or that I am one one side or the other - if I was I wouldn't feel so stuck in the middle!

What isetan said.

The phonecall thing was childish though. Have a word.

I'm more concerned by what you said a couple of posts ago

"I rarely ask DH to get involved any more and DD and I go our own way"

Separated out from the DM / DH issue, this is a really worrying thing. It sounds like DH is not being either a husband or a father, why should you and dd get used to managing on your own? It sounds like he's ruling you in some way, and you've learnt not to expect anything back and to just tiptoe around/ without him?

Your DM sounds like quite hard work and your DH has decided to opt out of the relationship completely which I don't think is unreasonable. I do think it is U to intercept your phone calls however and I would put an end to that right away.

However you seem to have an issue with this and are turning it into a bit of a drama really and dragging the DD along for the ride.

On that basis I am going to say YABU. Not everyone will always get along and I think you are blowing this up into a huge issue when it doesn't need to be.

I also can't help but wonder if your DH slightly U behaviour is partly down to the fact that he feels there are 3 people in the marriage at the moment.

You haven't said how old your Mum is-I would accept the distressed late night phone call better from an 80 year old than a 60 yer old.