Quick Advice DD2 refusing to go on holiday...

[fun1nthesun]

We need to leave now! dd2 has decided she isn't going (12 years old). Leaving her with relatives/friends isn't an option. She has form for sudden refusals, and in fact we lost £££ the last time she demanded to do expensive lessons and then changed her mind after we had given the money.

Any suggestions? Our holiday is ruined

PS fun if you're holed up due to bad weather, do read the Elderly Korean Lady thread a) beautiful and calming b) channel her with your stubborn DD!

Hm she sounds like ds3. He is so stubborn he can back himself into a corner.

Thanks choosandchips I will read it

Soft, I think its preteen rebellion. I had been firm the day before and she was pushing the boundaries because of that. I am remaining firm but she is quite hard work!

She has both form for costing me money and for behaving confusingly! She point blank refused to do something after swearing she wanted to do it which cost me ££££. But, she then behaved for the next few months.

She has both form for costing me money and for behaving confusingly! She point blank refused to do something after swearing she wanted to do it which cost me ££ ££. But, she then behaved for the next few months.

To me, that sounds like something she really wanted to do but lacked confidence and had a last minute panic so backed out. Then felt really guilty about it so tried hard to be good to make up for it.

Have you asked her 'why' after the behaviour?

MostWicked yes I agree. DD is constantly sabotaging herself/cutting nose off to spite face/backing out of things because it's all Too Much (especially if it's some kind of group/observed activity). Perfectionist/crippling fear of failure too. Which then becomes a reality, sigh.

So what's her punishment for her refusing to go?

Well, she didnt refuse to go.
I would be praising her (eventual) compliance.
I hope you have a good holiday.

Glad you eventually achieved your holiday.
You must confront your daughter's behaviour.
That is all I am going to say.

I hope you have a lovely holiday.
I would have a serious chat to her when you get home.

I don't then see the point in upping the confrontation now, this may be the peak of it. If it is not, the OP can then take action. If she doesn't often act like this, and it is months between any type of refusal, it is probably just one of those things which happens from time to time when growing pre- and teens flex their muscles to see who is boss, or to see what they can and can't get out of. The girl has her answer, her mum is boss and she had to go on holiday, why does she need further punishment on into next week or the week after? Anyone would think it wasn't normal for children to rebel a little bit.

One of mine refused to carry on with a paid for activity recently, I was huffing and puffing and my good friend gave me some very good advice- save your anger for the big stuff with teens. She lost the activity with no option to restart it and we had some very constructive conversations about how she's changing and her interests/behaviour is too. No need for the nuclear bin bag option just yet IMO.

thenapoleonofcrime good post.

Truly, i think some of the "not letting them get away with that, show them who's in charge" would be best spent on some of the DPs i read about on aibu than a moody 12 yo.

Asking why, is rarely helpful. It's usually met with, i don't know, or some excuse that may sound plausible. People generally don't know why they behave in strange ways. They can't rationalise it so they just make excuses and tell you what they think you want to hear.
Its better to ask how she felt. You may get a better insight into what was going on at the time.

The ultimate goal is for this kind of thing to never happen again. It is highly unlikely that any punishment will ever achieve that so calls for her behaviour to be confronted and dealt with are not really going to address the problem. That only deals with parental frustration (but not very well). Understanding what causes these issues and finding effective ways to deal with them is what will prevent a repeat occurrence.

Yy Mostwicked

I wouldn't bring it up again and show how good it is when everyone is having a good time.

No need for punishments, as she was dealt with perfectly and all went on nicely from there.
Punishments must be done immediately and to fit the action, preferably as a consequence of the action rather than something unrelated. If she hadn't backed down her punishment would have been to be embarassed by being on her pjs.

Regarding the lessons, I have in the past negotiated that I'd be happy for DS to drop something after giving it a fair shot. For example until Christmas. He ended up enjoying the activity and stuck by it.
A suitable consequence of losing me money, IMO, would have been to do tasks at home to repay the cost. Or to sell toys on eBay. Not strictly as punishment but as a consequence, as we meet in our lives.

As children grow they need to gain autonomy and power of choice, but should also realise that there are consequences to those choices.

For now, I'd lavish attention and love on all the children and focus on the positives. I'd also give them plenty of choices where feasible, negotiate and discuss options, thus involving them in decision making as much as possible. Hopefully, this will help them grow in responsibility instead of having the need to refuse things to affirm themselves herself.

I am glad that it worked out for you OP, hope your weather improves. I never thought it was more than a child pushing the boundaries.
The AS was a red herring and it wasn't relevant as Goldmantra wouldn't have got in that position at the last minute. I certainly can't afford to pay for a holiday and then not go, in a way that wouldn't be covered by insurance. Neither would I be willing to have two younger children crying their eyes out because they are not getting the promised holiday, but they don't count because they don't make as much fuss as the eldest and you don't have to manhandle them - if they refuse to get out of the car you can simply leave them until they are bored and hungry.
The analogy of the horse seems to have been dropped, but it would have to get in the trailer by some means or other- but time could be stretched.
My friends with children with SNs tailor their holidays accordingly and wouldn't be in that position- I doubt anyone would pay out for risky holidays and make promises to siblings that they might not be able to keep.
OP's DD didn't get her own way- a good lesson for the future.

I wouldn't go with punishments- just natural consequences.

I hope the rest of your holiday goes well.

I wouldn't go with any further punishments and try to act naturally and include her in conversations and activities. When my son was 12 there were a couple of incidents when he got things very wrong. Flexing his muscles and getting independent mixed with immaturity wasn't a good combination. I did have to show how upset I was. Then be very strict, no nonsense and put some harsh restrictions on him for a time, appropriate to the wrong doing.

But day to day inclusion and kindness was the only way to go to not push him into a corner and become ostracised. They do need a way to get back in :)

I wouldn't go with punishments, just natural consequences
I dont believe you Delphiniuim Throughout the thread your position has been one of exerting your will and not tolerating the defiant behaviour of a 12 yo. The "natural consequence" of her actions would have been to miss the holiday. Which would have meant all the family would have missed the holiday.
And gold made some very good points. Firstly, never assume the absence of a developmental complication and secondly, even without a SN hers was a position of trying to understand and collaborate.
So, good for you that you were jolly well right all along and this has been proven by?????
But i think its short sighted to try to negate the contribution that gold made to this very interesting thread

I am not negating it! Pointing out that she wouldn't have been in that position in the first place! She has years of experience.
OP merely had a child testing the boundaries and she now knows where they are.
My advice would be very different if it was AS- mainly don't back yourself into that sort of corner.
Not needed by OP who didn't have that problem and not needed by Goldmantra who I would bet has never wasted several thousand pounds on a holiday and upset other children by taking away a promised holiday -because she would have avoided it from the start- assuming she takes her own advice!

The AS was a red herring and it wasn't relevant as Goldmantra wouldn't have got in that position at the last minute.

I have been in exactly that position. You have no idea what you are talking about!

I certainly can't afford to pay for a holiday and then not go, in a way that wouldn't be covered by insurance. Neither would I be willing to have two younger children crying their eyes out because they are not getting the promised holiday

I am utterly amazed that you are finding it so difficult to understand this.

SOME PEOPLE DO NOT HAVE A CHOICE.

THEY ARE NOT WILLING TO GIVE UP HOLIDAYS OR DAYS OUT OR TO MISS IMPORTANT APPOINTMENTS.

THEY DO EVERYTHING IN THEIR POWER TO GET THE CHILD TO GIVE IN AND THEY FAIL.

I NEVER ONCE CHOSE TO SIT OUTSIDE SCHOOL FOR TWO HOURS TRYING TO GET MY CHILD OUT OF THE CAR YET I DID IT DOZENS OF TIMES. I DIDN'T GIVE HER PERMISSION TO STAY IN THE CAR. SHE JUST DID IT.

I am going to leave this thread now before I have to read any more of this ill-informed,small minded, judgemental drivel. People like you make the lives of parents of children with complex needs a lot harder than it has to be.

If this is an attempt at a wind up, congratulations. You have succeeded and I hope you feel very good about yourself

Gold
I hear you, and same here.

I wrote a post and deleted it as I don't wish to upset you further. Best to leave the thread without adding my bit.