Breastfeeding on Cross Country trains - a horrid experiance

[Paulala]

Hello ladies, I'm a first time poster & a first time mum so apologies if I introduce myself by way of a horrid experience but I'd like to know if you think I'm being unreasonable.

I've just taken my first train journey with my 7 month old boy, we were travelling alone to Derby with everything we needed for a week on a Cross Country train. Everything was going ok until we returned to our seat from a nappy change. The nappy change itself was quite upsetting for him, being strapped to a table in a moving urine soaked metal cubical isn't very pleasant, but I hadn't expected a lot from the facilities.

I intended to give him a breastfeed at our seat but when we got there the seat beside us was occupied (we were in a set on 2 seats not a table of 4). I asked the man sitting in the seat if it would be possible for him to move to one of the single vacant seats 3 rows up just while I breastfed so I could have a little bit of privacy. He said No & stated that was the seat he was allocated why should he move.

I asked him again saying my baby needed to be fed, he was hungry & distressed & there were empty seats in view he could use. He said I should move there instead, this really wouldn't have helped as they were single aisle seats & would have meant I'd have to feed even more publicly. I was so upset I asked him if he expected me to breastfeed in the seat beside him with him watching & he just shrugged his shoulders.

At this point everyone close by was aware of the situation & I'm still standing in the aisle with an upset baby, this man hasn't even got up to allow us to sit down. The ticket inspector then arrives & I explain to him that the man in the seat beside us is causing a lot of distress with his insistence on sitting there while I breastfed. Anyone who's traveled by train will know neighbouring seats offer no prospect of personal space.

I fully understand his right to the seat he booked but both he & I could see other seats he could have taken until I stopped feeding then he could have returned to the seat he booked when we finished. I'm sure many men would have been totally ok with doing that. Instead he was nasty & snarly & the thought of him watching me feed my baby in such a tight space was horrible. I had no option but to ask the ticket inspector to help me find another seat & to help me move all my things, we would also need the assistant at Derby station to be made aware we'd be on another carriage. All because this man would not move 3 rows up.

Still seating stubbornly in his seat the man recognised how upset he'd made me & stated loudly to everyone, right I'll move & asked the guard what he was going to do about it. The guard then said we'll sit you in first class sir don't worry about it you will be ok there. I couldn't believe it he'd made me suffer through a very public request to breastfeed privately (or as private as I could be) he'd initially insisted he would not move while I did so & left me feeling like I shouldn't be breastfeeding on a train, all while I stood with a distressed baby in a moving carriage while everyone watched. When the man eventually moved I sat & fed my baby & cried it was the worst breastfeeding experience I've ever had.

I have to travel back next week with the same train company & I'm dreading it, I can't express milk & I'm really worried something similar will happen again. I think trains should have a breastfeeding policy which recognises a womans need for privacy and a bit of respect. Not a system where men are rewarded for making women feel bad about the need to feed their babies. Do you think I'm being unreasonable?

Cheers ladies,
Paula

[Thebodyloveschocolateandwine]

lyingWitch bravo. Well put.

notso your posts show you havnt read the whole thread.

[Notso]

it's telling that the OP(YABU) 'crew' can refer to the circumstances without name-calling.
Really, so entitled, precious and princess are compliments then?

[Thebodyloveschocolateandwine]

sooty yes agree.

[Notso]

Why, because I disagree with you Thebody?

That may seem apparent to you but not to me sooty I find nothing telling me anyone was embarrassed except OP.

[Thebodyloveschocolateandwine]

Descriptions based on posts that are fact. Posts that have been read and commented on by many posters but if course not all agree like yourself.

The descriptions of the man are not. These are 2nd hand and based on the ops feelings alone. Also rather more serious in nature.

[ilovesooty]

The guard then said we'll sit you in first class sir don't worry about it you will be ok there rather indicates to me that he felt the man had been publicly embarrassed.

She refers to a very public request

I don't like witnessing confrontation and her behaviour would have had me cringing in my seat. She made other people aware - she said so herself.

[LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726]

Notso... Well, 'entitled' is a statement of fact. The fact that it's been adopted by MNetters to describe 'wannabe entitlement' is unfortunate. 'Precious' is a compliment in the same way that 'special' is... words that can mean what they say but who's to know?

... and 'princess' - there's a thread currently about that. Those who refer to themselves as 'princesses' most definitely think it's an accolade of some sort of achievement.

The way somebody phrases their OP, what they write... that dictates the responses really. Some people are more inclined to project than other people; all that does is distort the facts. The truth is, we only have OP's side of the story but the fact that so many sensible posters can see the unfairness in the OP's regaling of the tale means that it is not at all a case of 'women must prevail at any cost' and thank goodness for that; some of us feel that both X and Y chromosomes are equally valuable.

[LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726]

TheBody ... I can see light at the end of the tunnel... we will shortly run out of track, if not steam...!

[Thebodyloveschocolateandwine]

notso good grief no disagree away but your posts suggest you havnt read the whole thread.

If you have then fine but not much to say then.

[Catsize]

Can't believe this is going to hit 1000.
Hi notso. You and I are on the same wavelength me thinks, albeit my wavelength was about 42 pages ago.
Before we hit the 1000, can one of you sanctimonious 'I can feed a baby in a square inch of space' brigade someone pease tell me what position I need to use to breastfeed my baby within the confines of one train seat? I am 6' tall, big boobs, size 16 and have a five month old on 96th centile for height. Goodness knows what she will be like at 7mths, but I cannot feed in a window seat without feet encroaching. Unless I perhaps held her vertically in front with her legs between mine. But then I would have been touching thighs with The Man in the OP's scenario.

[Catsize]

The vertical thing might only work if I was topless and The Man held my boob.
Scrap that idea.

[Thebodyloveschocolateandwine]

lying and sooty save yourselves.

I will pretend to breast feed, I have the cap/apron and I will use it!! go over the top now go go go! Save yourselves

To bed night night

[LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726]

Buy a first class ticket would be my 'sanctimonious' advice, Catsize, or sit on the floor as 5madthings suggested upthread... or just - and I know this is a very 'out there' suggestion - just BE POLITE and non-patronising in your requests to fellow passengers you might wish to disturb.

[LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726]

Night night, TheBody... ilovesooty and I will hold the fort and by morning, t'will all be over...

[Notso]

Hi Catsize Sorry have no useful suggestions for feeding. I have been trying to help my sister who's seven month old will still only feed in rugby ball hold, they take up a sofa never mind two train seats and her breast is most definitely on display. It's a good job she doesn't care

[Catsize]

I have sat on the floor etc., but I am genuinely interested in all these people's success in feeding within the confines of one standard class seat.

[Catsize]

notso, she may require a table seat. On a ferry.

[Notso]

I think mine more sat on my lap to feed once they were a bit older. I think there was probably some baby feet on the next door persons leg but everyone loves chubby little baby feet don't they.

[5madthings]

If your baby can sit, you can sit them on your lap with their kegs either side of your waist facing in and they can feed like that.

Or ask the train guard if they will find somewhere, or sit on the floor or use a family railcards and book a seat for yourself and your baby/toddler (I have done this loads).

You do not expect another passenger to move and get pissy when they won't.

[5madthings]

And yrs they sit up more and if their legs encroach you apologise and smile, nobody minded and mine were all big 99 percentile plus babies.

[LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726]

No you're not, Catsize otherwise you wouldn't have phrased your post the way you did, would you? You sound of the same mindset as the OP and perhaps it's clearer why other passengers might take umbrage and the ticket conductor take steps to move them to safety...

Babies are +/- average size
Babies either feed easily and/or promptly or they don't and it's a palaver
Breastfeeding is babyhood (0-60 months depending on your view)
B/f women are supremely agile through to mobility impaired
Trains either have spare seats or they don't

Enough variability there to make it pretty imperative that give and take and POLITENESS from all quarters would be a good idea.

[poupeedeson]

But the space wasn't Paula's concern. It was the man's potential perversion that bothered her.

She wanted more personal space, not physical space. I see why the man was pissed about her insinuating he was invading her personal space and being pervy merely for sitting in a seat he had paid for.

[Catsize]

Nah, as said about 752 posts ago, I wouldn't have expected them to move, would have probably just tried to get on with it, but seat pitch etc doesn't work in one's favour and not sure that the baby legs around hips thing would work on Arriva Trains Wales. Especially as I would have to raise my boob about nine inches to facilitate this but will experiment!

[5madthings]

Oh and 're privacy I often bfed with baby/toddler in a ring sling, even sitting down. It supports weight of baby, means I can use both hands and you can't see baby is feeding!

[ilovesooty]

And MNHQ have still not reappeared and I still have no reply to my email despite being encouraged to contact them in the first place, so I'll assume that they have no problem with someone being called a pervert with absolutely no proof.