Breastfeeding on Cross Country trains - a horrid experiance

[Paulala]

Hello ladies, I'm a first time poster & a first time mum so apologies if I introduce myself by way of a horrid experience but I'd like to know if you think I'm being unreasonable.

I've just taken my first train journey with my 7 month old boy, we were travelling alone to Derby with everything we needed for a week on a Cross Country train. Everything was going ok until we returned to our seat from a nappy change. The nappy change itself was quite upsetting for him, being strapped to a table in a moving urine soaked metal cubical isn't very pleasant, but I hadn't expected a lot from the facilities.

I intended to give him a breastfeed at our seat but when we got there the seat beside us was occupied (we were in a set on 2 seats not a table of 4). I asked the man sitting in the seat if it would be possible for him to move to one of the single vacant seats 3 rows up just while I breastfed so I could have a little bit of privacy. He said No & stated that was the seat he was allocated why should he move.

I asked him again saying my baby needed to be fed, he was hungry & distressed & there were empty seats in view he could use. He said I should move there instead, this really wouldn't have helped as they were single aisle seats & would have meant I'd have to feed even more publicly. I was so upset I asked him if he expected me to breastfeed in the seat beside him with him watching & he just shrugged his shoulders.

At this point everyone close by was aware of the situation & I'm still standing in the aisle with an upset baby, this man hasn't even got up to allow us to sit down. The ticket inspector then arrives & I explain to him that the man in the seat beside us is causing a lot of distress with his insistence on sitting there while I breastfed. Anyone who's traveled by train will know neighbouring seats offer no prospect of personal space.

I fully understand his right to the seat he booked but both he & I could see other seats he could have taken until I stopped feeding then he could have returned to the seat he booked when we finished. I'm sure many men would have been totally ok with doing that. Instead he was nasty & snarly & the thought of him watching me feed my baby in such a tight space was horrible. I had no option but to ask the ticket inspector to help me find another seat & to help me move all my things, we would also need the assistant at Derby station to be made aware we'd be on another carriage. All because this man would not move 3 rows up.

Still seating stubbornly in his seat the man recognised how upset he'd made me & stated loudly to everyone, right I'll move & asked the guard what he was going to do about it. The guard then said we'll sit you in first class sir don't worry about it you will be ok there. I couldn't believe it he'd made me suffer through a very public request to breastfeed privately (or as private as I could be) he'd initially insisted he would not move while I did so & left me feeling like I shouldn't be breastfeeding on a train, all while I stood with a distressed baby in a moving carriage while everyone watched. When the man eventually moved I sat & fed my baby & cried it was the worst breastfeeding experience I've ever had.

I have to travel back next week with the same train company & I'm dreading it, I can't express milk & I'm really worried something similar will happen again. I think trains should have a breastfeeding policy which recognises a womans need for privacy and a bit of respect. Not a system where men are rewarded for making women feel bad about the need to feed their babies. Do you think I'm being unreasonable?

Cheers ladies,
Paula

[Catsize]

Night all.

[Catsize]

Mind you, men would have been too busy looking after babies to invent all this technology we mere women use and for which we are forever indebted and grateful although I bet someone was looking after their kids whilst they pondered stuff and twiddled with electrics. It is thanks to Men we have Mensnet. I mean Mumsnet. Probably.

[LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726]

Ha yes, could have done that much earlier, couldn't I?

I think we're pulling into the station now, my friend... I can hear the whilstle!

[Notso]

I was not insinuating OP couldn't think for herself Lying she obviously hadn't asked the inspector and she said the free seats were even more exposed so to me the man suggesting she ask the inspector to help her find a suitable seat would be a useful suggestion.

Cat it is very sad I loved a lot of his films.

[LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726]

So we are, Catsize... been nice chatting to you. May see you on an Arriva Wales Train someday

Have some lovely and

[Catsize]

You raise such profound points just five posts from our destination?!

[LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726]

I was thinking about this earlier and I'm sure it's been said before BUT, if men gave birth/fed babies, I'm pretty sure that life would be made much easier for them than it is for women...

Of course, if men did all of it, we wouldn't be having the conversation at all, we could sit with our feet up, eating icecream, whilst maternal robots serviced the babies and mostly the poor hard-working menfolk...

[Catsize]

Wonder if they can join the same clubs as orchestra conductors.
Nearly at our destination now. Been nice travelling with you lying. Think it's just us on the train now...

[LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726]

I'd back you up 100%, Catsize... even in the face of opposition from any errant MAN... ticket conductors included.

[Catsize]

Oh, and I am polite really. Even though I said 'sod'. Oops.

[Catsize]

I think the way forward is to move to first class (preferably with noisy toddlers in tow) and insist on feeding there due to the inadequacy of the facilities in standard. Am liking your thinking lying

[LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726]

It is late - and very sad about Robin Williams. I can't look at his face at the moment, makes me think about how desperate he must have been, poor man. :(

[Catsize]

It is getting late. I actually thought that Robin Williams (picture to the right of this page) was looking at me then. Sad story.

[LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726]

Ok, Catsize but we're really talking around in circles as there wasn't enough information from the OP to really take a view who've thunk it, nearly 1000 posts on?. From what OP posted, I thought she needed to manage her expectations; yes the man could possibly have accommodated her but she could equally have nipped to first class and fed the baby there.

She could have asked the ticket inspector for some help - she didn't. I saw somebody upthread suggest that the man should have helpfully told OP that she could ask the inspector... WTF? Even I didn't insinuate that OP couldn't think for herself.

Yes, travelling with babies and toddlers isn't the easiest thing to do. If you get help then that's a boon, great but you need to plan journeys as if there is no help available. Commonsense really.

I expect, Catsize that you are polite in RL... I am too. I never come across these problems but would absolutely not resort to nasty name-calling as OP confessed to. That was the disgusting bit and that's where she lost credibility. The asking for a favour/getting rejected was just unfortunate and other than making a fuss unnecessarily, nobody was opposed to OP at that point.

[ilovesooty]

I think she also got upset knowing that the public who she ensured she alerted saw the guard move the man even though she asked to be moved. She knew that her public scene hadn't had the desired effect and everyone had seen that.

[Notso]

[Catsize]

Ah notso, a fellow ATW sufferer. We stand united. Literally on most Cardiff trains north.
Thanks for the offer. But by the time I have mastered this new technique, I will be able to bf, play trains with my toddler and hold all four of your kids simultaneously.

[ilovesooty]

Well Lying I reported and got no reply. I then said on another thread that I was disappointed by recent moderation and Dawn suggested I email my concerns. I had an immediate automated acknowledgement of my email and nothing since. I'm not inclined to continue to waste my time, to be honest.

[poupeedeson]

I think that's her real problem. Whining didn't get her an upgrade and she is all indignant about it, so blowing the issue uo in her head.

[Notso]

Well if you see a harangued looking woman with 4 DC on Arriva Trains Wales Cat try asking if she wouldn't mind shoving a couple of them up so you can sit down. I am a regular on ATW and wouldn't be insulted or offended in the slightest to be asked. You may however have to answer questions on 'milking the baby' from my 3 year old

[LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726]

Maybe e-mail them again, sooty? I don't think they could/would really post back on this thread without losing face, but they should reply to your e-mail. Quite a few posters have complained - and complained about the non-specific response.

[Catsize]

I know it wasn't space that was her main concern, but I am just interested for my own sake (despite what lying might think). Yes lying, I am of the same mindset to the extent that it wouldn't have harmed him to move and be a bit more compassionate. But OP's methods may not have been ideal. Having done a return from Manchester to London for the weekend with an active toddler and a teething baby recently on my own, I can confirm that one is not quite oneself necessarily on such journeys!

[ilovesooty]

poupeedeson (LOVE the username btw) don't forget that she was well hacked off that the guard moved him to First Class as well.

[5madthings]

Yes you have to lift boobs, I would tuck a muslin cloth under mine sometimes to hold it up! And older babies can and do hold them up themselves.

You just have to experiment a bit :)

[ilovesooty]

And MNHQ have still not reappeared and I still have no reply to my email despite being encouraged to contact them in the first place, so I'll assume that they have no problem with someone being called a pervert with absolutely no proof.