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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Breastfeeding on Cross Country trains - a horrid experiance

999 replies

Paulala · 07/08/2014 23:11

Hello ladies, I'm a first time poster & a first time mum so apologies if I introduce myself by way of a horrid experience but I'd like to know if you think I'm being unreasonable.

I've just taken my first train journey with my 7 month old boy, we were travelling alone to Derby with everything we needed for a week on a Cross Country train. Everything was going ok until we returned to our seat from a nappy change. The nappy change itself was quite upsetting for him, being strapped to a table in a moving urine soaked metal cubical isn't very pleasant, but I hadn't expected a lot from the facilities.

I intended to give him a breastfeed at our seat but when we got there the seat beside us was occupied (we were in a set on 2 seats not a table of 4). I asked the man sitting in the seat if it would be possible for him to move to one of the single vacant seats 3 rows up just while I breastfed so I could have a little bit of privacy. He said No & stated that was the seat he was allocated why should he move.

I asked him again saying my baby needed to be fed, he was hungry & distressed & there were empty seats in view he could use. He said I should move there instead, this really wouldn't have helped as they were single aisle seats & would have meant I'd have to feed even more publicly. I was so upset I asked him if he expected me to breastfeed in the seat beside him with him watching & he just shrugged his shoulders.

At this point everyone close by was aware of the situation & I'm still standing in the aisle with an upset baby, this man hasn't even got up to allow us to sit down. The ticket inspector then arrives & I explain to him that the man in the seat beside us is causing a lot of distress with his insistence on sitting there while I breastfed. Anyone who's traveled by train will know neighbouring seats offer no prospect of personal space.

I fully understand his right to the seat he booked but both he & I could see other seats he could have taken until I stopped feeding then he could have returned to the seat he booked when we finished. I'm sure many men would have been totally ok with doing that. Instead he was nasty & snarly & the thought of him watching me feed my baby in such a tight space was horrible. I had no option but to ask the ticket inspector to help me find another seat & to help me move all my things, we would also need the assistant at Derby station to be made aware we'd be on another carriage. All because this man would not move 3 rows up.

Still seating stubbornly in his seat the man recognised how upset he'd made me & stated loudly to everyone, right I'll move & asked the guard what he was going to do about it. The guard then said we'll sit you in first class sir don't worry about it you will be ok there. I couldn't believe it he'd made me suffer through a very public request to breastfeed privately (or as private as I could be) he'd initially insisted he would not move while I did so & left me feeling like I shouldn't be breastfeeding on a train, all while I stood with a distressed baby in a moving carriage while everyone watched. When the man eventually moved I sat & fed my baby & cried it was the worst breastfeeding experience I've ever had.

I have to travel back next week with the same train company & I'm dreading it, I can't express milk & I'm really worried something similar will happen again. I think trains should have a breastfeeding policy which recognises a womans need for privacy and a bit of respect. Not a system where men are rewarded for making women feel bad about the need to feed their babies. Do you think I'm being unreasonable?

Cheers ladies,
Paula

OP posts:
HaroldLloyd · 12/08/2014 23:17

Those seats are more than likely booked. That's why is wouldn't move from my booked seat.

I would stand up for someone who needed a seat who didn't have one at all. But I wouldn't move for someone who already had one, and wanted two.

I think that is a reasonable stance and one I am happy to go with, but I wouldn't ever dream of asking someone to move from their seat, it just wouldn't occur to me at all.

Notso · 12/08/2014 23:18

Why would anyone need to move for her?

Why does anyone do anything to help anyone? Nobody needs to but I am glad people still do.

I don't think it's breathtakingly entitled to think it's not unreasonable to ask someone for help if you need it.

Thebodyloveschocolateandwine · 12/08/2014 23:21

I swore I wouldn't look at this thread again but just read that the op had a crying baby in her arms

Is there a mumsnet drama club?

Please please clear the train. My child is famished and I need to feed her, will anybody help me in my hour of need

And all men who would care to sit in a train In front of a breast feeding goddess must be ogling her.

To be honest the op was a hell of a lot more normal than some of theses later posts.

Christ on a bike. If I ever get this precious or dramatic I want an Oscar

She was breast feeding not pushing the head out. Good grief.

PhaedraIsMyName · 12/08/2014 23:22

You do realise that if your on a cheapo advance ticket it's only valid for that seat?

She had a seat-no one was stopping her using it, no one was stopping her feeding. If she knew she woukd need 2 seats she ccould have bought 3

Thebodyloveschocolateandwine · 12/08/2014 23:24

notso she didn't need help!

Why would she need help?

HaroldLloyd · 12/08/2014 23:30

She had a seat. And she got the two seats in the end, but whinged because he got moved to first!

Notso · 12/08/2014 23:30

Don't worry Thebodyloveschocolateandwine you'll get your Oscar for your dramatic portrayal of poor, humiliated, embarrassed bloke in The Man and His Seat.

HaroldLloyd · 12/08/2014 23:31

Are you reading the latter part of the thread at all notso,

Because she won't be first in the queue when the oscars are handed out.

HaroldLloyd · 12/08/2014 23:32

Her main gripe was that he was moved to first.

She got her two seats.

Jesus.

Notso · 12/08/2014 23:36

I have read every single post on the thread.
I have said several times I don't think she was right to repeatedly ask him to move.
I don't agree with her third post either.
The difference is I don't think she was initially wrong and I do think the man could have been more helpful or nicer to her.

PhaedraIsMyName · 12/08/2014 23:36

Actually it was wasn't it? She got her 2 seats in standard but thought she deserved 2 in First class.

ilovesooty · 12/08/2014 23:39

I bet she was pretty narked after she'd complained publicly about the bloke that the guard decided that he would rather move him to First when he hadn't even asked to be moved. I think the words the guard used are rather telling as well. I don't think he thought much of the scene she was making.

Thebodyloveschocolateandwine · 12/08/2014 23:40

notso absolutely I always prefer to take the side of the quiet dignified person.

Hate bullies and loud mouths and drama lamas.

Also bad manners.

Notso · 12/08/2014 23:40

Not sure how that is her main gripe, in any case how could the man move to first class if his ticket is only valid for his booked seat.

HaroldLloyd · 12/08/2014 23:42

If you don't agree with her third post, and you didn't think she should have repeatedly asked him, what makes you so sure she was in the right, and wasn't just very rude to this man?

Do you think people have to do things which are not necessary when asked rudely?

If she had asked the guard herself when she saw the seat was taken are there some spare seats I can pop into to feed my baby, chances are it would have been her in first I would say.

So she got the 2 seats and started a thread, the crux of this seemingly to be that he was rewarded for not moving when told?

Then says "Paula, Out" and calls him a perve.

Maybe the man was a grumpy old git, still shouldn't have been told to move though.

HaroldLloyd · 12/08/2014 23:43

Because the ticket inspector moved him, not some random woman called Paula.

Notso · 12/08/2014 23:47

The mystery hero is quiet and dignified now too. I wonder if he's single... Oh wait I forgot he is his made up wife has just died.

I also loath bullies, loud mouths, drama llamas and bad manners so we agree there. I prefer however to try and see all sides of the story and side with the person who I think is in the right. In this case I think both were in the wrong.

Keepcalmanddrinkwine · 12/08/2014 23:50

She did actually ask the ticket inspector to help her move and that they would need to let the assist team know she was in a different carriage. It was probably just too much work so the ticket inspector moved the man.

So she got her space to feed but it was an unpleasant experience, whether you think she was in the right or wrong to request he move for 5 minutes while she fed her baby, which is all she was actually asking.

I actually feel really sorry for the OP. The fickle nature of MN means she could have got entirely different responses on a different day.

Keepcalmanddrinkwine · 12/08/2014 23:51

Such over-use of the word actually. I sound like DD.
Blush

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 12/08/2014 23:52

Are you still fighting the good fight, Harold? You have some stamina. Refreshments? CakeWineBrewGrin

Thebodyloveschocolateandwine · 12/08/2014 23:53

The ticket Inspector was a wise man.

Or maybe he was a pervert, mysoginistic, tosser too.

These men aye. You can't trust any of the dirty bastards.

Thebodyloveschocolateandwine · 12/08/2014 23:56

Actually she got the answers from who was online that day!

Is that fickle or just fact!

Notso · 13/08/2014 00:01

Do you think people have to do things which are not necessary when asked rudely?
No, but I am assuming she asked him nicely in the first instance and maybe in the other instances too.

I agree she should have asked the guard for help, perhaps our seasoned traveller hero man could have suggested the same.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 13/08/2014 00:02

Keepcalm... The OP might well have got an entirely different response on the train had she not talked to the man the way she said she did here.

I think most people are kind and considerate and would go out of their way to help somebody struggling - man, woman, old or young, child, animal, whatever. The OP made the approach, we know that. The response is likely to be an echo and even if the man could have been kinder in his response (and we don't know he wasn't), the OP was bang out of order asking him to move as she wanted to breastfeed.

She compounded that here by referring to him as a misogynist and pervert, saying that he was grunting at her chest. Any sympathy that might have been proffered to the OP was withdrawn at that point.

Other posters have also named-called the man. He had done nothing to deserve this. He possibly is somebody's father or husband. He's definitely somebody's son and that is something we should bear in mind perhaps?

It's telling that even the OP(YABU) 'crew' can refer to the circumstances without name-calling. The OP-do-what-you-like people are the ones who cannot.

I've never come across such a scenario as the OP describes. Hopefully, she will have some coping measures in place for breastfeeding in public in future.

ilovesooty · 13/08/2014 00:05

I think these jibes about the hero man are childish and tiresome. We have no way of knowing what he's like as a person and I don't much care. It does seem apparent to me that the OP made a scene and embarrassed him and very possibly other people. It seems the ticket inspector thought so too.