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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to consider not allowing daughters dad to see her...?

287 replies

NamesNick · 07/08/2014 09:22

ExP and I split over 2 years ago. When we first split he didn't want to see our daughter (who is now 4) so I fought really hard, reasoned, pleaded etc etc and we eventually came to an arrangement where he would see her regularly and have her overnight once a week.
I think that since our split he has really stepped up and they have a great relationship. DD loves her dad so much and I encourage this with all my heart. All I ever wanted was for him to love her as much as I do. And I believe he does. Up until now..
I told him when he initially refused to have a relationship with her that his decision would be final and it was all or nothing, he couldn't just pick her up and drop her when the fancy took him.
So, for the past 2 years everything has gone really smoothly - he appears to really love her and she loves him.
Regarding the maintenance payments, that hasn't gone as smoothly because 3 times in 2 years he has 'negotiated' a reduction in maintenance payments, but I have always conceded because to me a relationship with her dad is more important than the money he pays.

So, yesterday I get a text message requesting further reduction to which I compromise and agree to half way without any arguments - he works FT btw and lives with his mum - apparently his 'household' are having financial issues and he wants to help them out...
He did not agree to my compromise and stated this is what you will get and that's it...needs must apparently.

I know this was being a bit of a cow but, I told him...ok, you pay what you pay but come to collect dd and drop her off, I'm no longer wasting fuel to facilitate your access. His response: well I won't see her at all then, (he lives in the same area so a 15 minute walk) and instead of having her last night as per our arrangement he went out. I actually called him to say ok I'm bringing her round. he said Fuck You and Fuck Her.

Last night I get a text message saying: I will pay but I want both of you to be strangers to me.

This is what I've done:

Told him not to pay anything I dont want his money if he not interested in spending time love and effort with his 4 year who dotes on him. I have given him unti Friday to decide what he wants to do.

He may well take a few weeks 'off' from seeing her an then try to get back in but I told him the previous time that it was all or nothing and I won't have him pick her up and drop her like a bad smel when he throws a titty lip.

If he decides by Friday that he doesn't want to see her AIBU to refuse him any contact in future. What do I do

She loves him and it breaks my heart, I'm not sure what the right thing to do is?

OP posts:
Fairenuff · 07/08/2014 09:54

I think you need to separate access and maintenance. They are really nothing to do with each other.

Tell him he can see her as normal. If it's a 15 minute walk to his house it needn't cost you any petrol any more than it will cost him.

Yes he is being unreasonable and manipulative. However, you can go through other channels to get maintenance from him if necessary.

BarbarianMum · 07/08/2014 09:55

So if you don't want the money take it and put it in a savings account for your dd. Unless you are extremely well off you have no business standing on principle over this. If you feel the amount isn't right then CSA is a good idea.

As for contact, I suggest you leave the ball in his court. If he picks up where he left off (even after a weeks sulking and carries on as normal it's probably best to go with this. If a long gap evolves, or he becomes erratic, then let him go to court for an order to resume.

Pyjamaramadrama · 07/08/2014 09:57

I wouldn't bend over backwards for him but I would leave it open. Your dd is still young enough that you can protect her by saying her daddy is working or he's poorly. When she's older, well you can only hope that he won't be so horrible. Has he ever said cruel things to her face?

Regarding the money, I think that you should either go to CSA or just tell him that you don't want a penny (if you can afford to). You don't need the stress of having to negotiate over money with the idiot.

Pyjamaramadrama · 07/08/2014 09:59

I keep forgetting that he's 45. Shake head.

LEMmingaround · 07/08/2014 09:59

You sre doing your dd a massive disservice by allowing contact to continue. He will drop her like a hot potato when he meets someone else. Erratic contact is not better than no contact

Original poster
NamesNick · 07/08/2014 10:02

Good idea regarding the savings. I will do that.

OP posts:
Nanny0gg · 07/08/2014 10:05

If he's still living at home, what do his parents think? Don't they want contact with their DGD?

ginnybag · 07/08/2014 10:06

As a child of divorced parents, I can attest to erratic contact being worse than nothing.

I had periods in my childhood, from being age 6 on, where I didn't see one or the other of them for years at a time - and then this stranger would rock up out of the blue and take me somewhere and have rules and expectations that I didn't understand. It was frightening and unsettling.

Later, it was the hope that was the killer. Will they/won't they? Birthdays/Christmas etc etc... always on pins , plans always at the last minute, and the times they didn't even phone were horrible.

My mum now wonders why the heck I don't make any especial effort with her, or allow DD to see them as they choose.

On the other hand, though, my Dad, to his credit, realized when I was 19 that he'd been a shit parent, apologized and has been making a fair effort since, and is actually pretty good with DD, so never say never.

But, involved or not, and not dibbing in and out as he can be arsed to remember (or needs a pretty little girl to show off for some reason - yes, Mum, I'm looking at you!!) is definitely the way to go.

SmiteYouWithThunderbolts · 07/08/2014 10:08

If you were saying he can't see her because he's not paying his way, that would be unreasonable. Saying that, as he is again reducing the amount he pays, he should compensate by collecting your DD himself is not unreasonable per se, but I'm not entirely sure it's anything more than a knee-jerk reaction on your part (entirely understandable, if not entirely reasonable).

His response has been vile though. To go out partying instead of seeing his daughter and to say "fuck you and fuck her". Urgh. I can't even find the words.

There's no way to see into the future and determine if this behaviour is indicative of how he will treat her as she grows up. Yes you have a need to protect her from harm and from a potentially toxic father, but it is her right to have contact with both her parents, even if one of them is a massive twat (except in cases of abuse, obviously).

My ex has always been shit at contact with ds1 (9yo), and refuses to even acknowledge ds2's existence. He pays maintenance, but only after a 6 year long battle through the CSA. As it stands, he hasn't seen ds1 since Christmas and hasn't so much as phoned in about 3 months. As much as it kills me to not tell him to FOTTFSOF, all the advice I've been given has said that the fairest thing I can do for my ds is to not stand in the way of his relationship with his dad, but make sure I am there to support him through the crap. My own dad was just as crap and when I got to 12 years old, I decided enough was enough and went NC by my own choice. We did get back in touch eventually, but it turned out he's still a massive twat, so we're back to NC again and I intend to leave it that way.

In terms of maintenance, the best thing you could do would be to go through the CSA. Yes, you may well lose money to fees but it saves any buggering about with him "renegotiating" payments, and it takes it off the table between the two of you.

I don't recommend you stop him seeing her though. It's so, so hard to let someone like that stay in your child's life, but ultimately it has to be her decision and right now she's too young to understand.

Original poster
NamesNick · 07/08/2014 10:08

Text from him last night:

Ok. I will pay. spoke to my own and you are right. dont want anything to do with both of you. my mums really upset over this. both of you please become strangers. im done. dont wanna know.

To which I replied:

I have no idea what you are saying. Have you been drinking. You want dd to become a stranger...is that what you are saying?

His reply:

Yes

OP posts:
mommy2ash · 07/08/2014 10:09

if the csa only suggests slightly more than the was suggesting the money drops to them that means he has been paying more. than he was obliged to for the last few years.

I think you need to fix this for your daughters sake. she had a good relationship with her dad and now it's all gone belly up over an argument about money that you now claim you don't even want.

Of course he shouldn't have reacted like that but someone needs to be the bigger person here

SmiteYouWithThunderbolts · 07/08/2014 10:13

Just read the latest post. What a shithead of a cunty fucking arsehole.

Well if HE is the one cutting contact, you aren't under any obligation to chase him. Your poor dd.

jeanmiguelfangio · 07/08/2014 10:14

I must admit if it was me and I got a text like that, id do it. Id go nc, take the money and be done with it. Save all this as evidence. You have done everything to get him to be in her life, and he is shrugging it off.
It will be tough om your dd but if he cant be bothered or is only doing it becaue you are facilitating it, then maybe its for the best.
this is my vho, he doesnt deserve to see her, what a twat

Original poster
NamesNick · 07/08/2014 10:15

sorry I don't understand what NC means..?

OP posts:
ellenjames · 07/08/2014 10:19

He sounds like the lowest of the low! And I don't know how stable a person he is if he is telling a four year old to fuck herself! I would go straight to CSA and tell him he will have to go to court for visitation so it is all official . Keep all texts, emails etc as evidence . But most importantly shield your daughter from it all she must never know what he has said or done and enjoy your lives together

stubbornstains · 07/08/2014 10:20

It means no contact. Oh dear, what a cunt. I take a lot of my previous post back now Sad. Well, he has made his choice, hasn't he? One thing I would do is to keep a copy of that text- upload it onto your computer, if you can. You never know when it could come in handy for the future.

I feel really sad for you and your DD, but it's just not your fault.

Fairenuff · 07/08/2014 10:23

In light of his latest message, make sure that you save it as evidence should it be required in the future.

Take him at his word. Have no further contact with him. Let him go through courts to get access if he wants to.

Pinkrose1 · 07/08/2014 10:32

I can't understand how any father can do that to a child Sad

I think you have to cut your losses and that of DD if he keeps on with his view.

It might be worth trying an alternative though. If you are not financially strapped at the moment, just take the lower amount he is offering as a goodwill gesture and he may change his mind when he starts to miss DD and want to reestablish contact. He is less likely to do this if you are chasing him with the CSA and however shitty this end of the stick is, maintaining his relationship with her is in DDs best interest at this moment in time.

I am sure you are making sure DD has the opportunity to make special bonds with your siblings and parents because it's these bonds which are the real importance, not the label dad or aunt or grandma.

Pinkrose1 · 07/08/2014 10:33

Obviously if he remains an arse, make sure he pays full maintenance and you could save it for her future. Smile

Infinity8 · 07/08/2014 10:37

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
NamesNick · 07/08/2014 10:41

This has really helped me to gain some perspective. I'm generally quite a level headed individual, but this has knocked me for six due to the high emotional aspect.

It's good to have somewhere to gather varying opinion.

I will welcome any payment he makes, and save it for dd.

I will leave the ball in his court and make decisions based on circumstances as and when they arise.

I am in no doubt that this is not the last time I will seek your advice :)

Many Thanks everyone

OP posts:
Original poster
NamesNick · 07/08/2014 10:46

Infinity that's what I just don't get.

But dd loves him so much, talks about him all the time and is generally happier for his being in her life.

He knows how to push my buttons, as nothing he says or does even affects me anymore - so by saying that about dd he knows I'll be on the floor bawling like a baby.

How could he not love her like I do? How can those words even enter his thoughts let alone leave his mouth.

I am also certain there will be a remorseful message in the future.

DD will never know about this - her happiness is paramount.

She will just have to make up her own mind when she is older.

OP posts:
Pyjamaramadrama · 07/08/2014 10:48

Infinity8, some people are of the mindset that any relationship is better than none, no matter what.

There was a thread on here a couple if weeks ago where women disclosed that they'd been raped and battered by their exes, and people were still adamant that these men could be good fathers, when they turned up.

Pyjamaramadrama · 07/08/2014 10:54

Good look namesnick, I'd just keep in mind though, that if he does continue to have these sulks where he drops your dd, it won't do her self esteem much good, it also won't teach her much about how men should treat their children and children's mums.

I'd be inclined to give him one last chance, if he chooses to do this again you could go down the route of telling him to make it official through the courts.

A lot of people say the children will make their own mind up when they're old enough. But you only have to read threads on here to realise that more often they spent their adulthood wondering why they weren't enough to change daddy.

TheXxed · 07/08/2014 10:58

pyjama I remember the thread and that post in particular. I cried.

The idea that a man can rape his partner and she thinks she is doing her children a service by keeping him in their lives floored me.

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