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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

AIBU to consider not allowing daughters dad to see her...?

287 replies

NamesNick · 07/08/2014 09:22

ExP and I split over 2 years ago. When we first split he didn't want to see our daughter (who is now 4) so I fought really hard, reasoned, pleaded etc etc and we eventually came to an arrangement where he would see her regularly and have her overnight once a week.
I think that since our split he has really stepped up and they have a great relationship. DD loves her dad so much and I encourage this with all my heart. All I ever wanted was for him to love her as much as I do. And I believe he does. Up until now..
I told him when he initially refused to have a relationship with her that his decision would be final and it was all or nothing, he couldn't just pick her up and drop her when the fancy took him.
So, for the past 2 years everything has gone really smoothly - he appears to really love her and she loves him.
Regarding the maintenance payments, that hasn't gone as smoothly because 3 times in 2 years he has 'negotiated' a reduction in maintenance payments, but I have always conceded because to me a relationship with her dad is more important than the money he pays.

So, yesterday I get a text message requesting further reduction to which I compromise and agree to half way without any arguments - he works FT btw and lives with his mum - apparently his 'household' are having financial issues and he wants to help them out...
He did not agree to my compromise and stated this is what you will get and that's it...needs must apparently.

I know this was being a bit of a cow but, I told him...ok, you pay what you pay but come to collect dd and drop her off, I'm no longer wasting fuel to facilitate your access. His response: well I won't see her at all then, (he lives in the same area so a 15 minute walk) and instead of having her last night as per our arrangement he went out. I actually called him to say ok I'm bringing her round. he said Fuck You and Fuck Her.

Last night I get a text message saying: I will pay but I want both of you to be strangers to me.

This is what I've done:

Told him not to pay anything I dont want his money if he not interested in spending time love and effort with his 4 year who dotes on him. I have given him unti Friday to decide what he wants to do.

He may well take a few weeks 'off' from seeing her an then try to get back in but I told him the previous time that it was all or nothing and I won't have him pick her up and drop her like a bad smel when he throws a titty lip.

If he decides by Friday that he doesn't want to see her AIBU to refuse him any contact in future. What do I do

She loves him and it breaks my heart, I'm not sure what the right thing to do is?

OP posts:

Pyjamaramadrama · 14/08/2014 10:01

To be honest, and others may disagree, the fact that he's apologised and backed down so to speak, I'd give him another chance.

He's thrown his toys out of the pram over money. And confused the two, contact and money.

He's fucked up big time, but he hasn't let it drag on for months at least.

I'd start contact up again with the frame of mind that if he does this again it will be the last time.

Pyjamaramadrama · 14/08/2014 10:03

Btw I think you've just named yourself and dd so you might want to get MN to edit that.

Annarose2014 · 14/08/2014 10:05

You also said initially:

He may well take a few weeks 'off' from seeing her an then try to get back in but I told him the previous time that it was all or nothing.

So that was a bluff, clearly. And he knows it.

No formalised custody arrangement = no consequences.

Original poster

NamesNick · 14/08/2014 10:08

the davina comment was a flippant remark about me taking time to answer...like a gameshow host (davina mccall) would build up suspense.

thanks for pointing that out about dd I will report my post.

OP posts:

Pyjamaramadrama · 14/08/2014 10:11

I'm just thinking of things from your dds point of view when she's older.

I presume that he's not violent and looks after her ok during his contact time?

Ok so he sounds like an overgrown toddler.

But, he has been consistent for the past two years I believe you said?

He has acknowledged responsibility for his dd, he has agreed to collect her now and acknowledged that he's caused a horrendous week for her.

He fucked up a lot, but if you have him go to court then it could drag on for months.

JohnFarleysRuskin · 14/08/2014 10:14

You've been very strong, and I'm glad he backed down.

I'd probably think it over for a bit, then give him this chance - making it clear that its a very last chance - you can't just drop a child like this - I would let him know that you've gone to the CSA - to avoid his ever opting out again - and go back to normal contact.

I would also say how shocked and yes, disgusted you are with his behaviour, and you've learnt a lot about him and that it wasn't good.

I'm soft though.

Aeroflotgirl · 14/08/2014 10:14

I agree pyjama to give him one last chance, but wRn him if this happens again he will have to go through the court system who will stipulate a definite contact arrangements. He sounds very immature, and toddler like really, if this happens again that's it!

JohnFarleysRuskin · 14/08/2014 10:15

Would it possible to meet up with his mum there as a referee, or is that a crazy idea?

Original poster

NamesNick · 14/08/2014 10:15

no he is not violent and lools after her very well imo.

I have never had any concerns over her being in his care.

I know im beginning to sound lame but I too am looking at this from dds point of view.

I allowed him to dictate. by being able to set the rules from this point gives me back control.

OP posts:

Aeroflotgirl · 14/08/2014 10:17

Yes your right you have to be in control as he cannot be trusted as he has demonstrated.

Original poster

NamesNick · 14/08/2014 10:19

do you think my terms are unreasonable?

every other weekend and not during the week? in comparison to 2 evenings per week and one overnight every weekend.

OP posts:

Original poster

NamesNick · 14/08/2014 10:20

not a good idea to meet with his mum as ref. she is old and frail and it wouldn't do her any good.

OP posts:

Pyjamaramadrama · 14/08/2014 10:21

It's not lame at all. You sound as though you have your dds best interests at heart.

It's not about anyone being the winner (I know you haven't said this), but just about setting acceptable boundaries on things like maintenance, picking up/dropping off and being consistent.

Ultimately you can't change his core being, he is who he is but what you have to decide is whether who he is is bad enough to say no contact or go to court.

At the minute it sounds as though he's on last chance territory.

JohnFarleysRuskin · 14/08/2014 10:22

Well, you could say, look I don't trust you now I know what you're capable of, so we're going to have to go slowly...

Is there any chance you could work the arrangements out together?

Pyjamaramadrama · 14/08/2014 10:25

If you're going to reduce contact then do it because it's best for dd not as punishment for his bad behaviour iyswim?

I always think little and often is good for small children so personally I'd be inclined to say in the week is good, it also means the nrp is taking some responsibility for the day to day stuff.

Can't he give her her bath and put her in pjs ready so all you have to do is put her to bed/story.

jacks365 · 14/08/2014 10:27

I've been in your position and he was using contact as a form of control over me. He stopped contact when he realised he could no longer control me. My advice would be to request he sends you a formal document stating contact arrangements and frequency via his solicitor. You could suggest to him that now your dd is starting school that every other weekend would be more appropriate plus part of holidays but reiterate that you want a formal arrangement for the future and don't be afraid of refusing contact if he refuses

Goldmandra · 14/08/2014 10:30

He crossed a line, thinking he could get away with anything and you stood up to him. He realised that he had gone too far and has backed down.

Now is definitely you chance to establish the boundaries for the future.

Tell him that you have contacted the CMS so he will be hearing from them but that is nothing to do with contact arrangements and you won't participate in any attempts to link the two.

Then set out how you think contact should be and why, making it clear that contact is for your DD's benefit.

Finally, make it clear that you won't tolerate being messed about and he will have to go to court for contact if he starts the power games again.

If he takes all that on the chin you know you have established some new ground rules and can cooperate with future contact.

if he throws his toys out of the playpen again, play it cool and clam until he comes round. Once he has, he will probably have got the message and be more averse to trying it on again.

Don't accede to any requests that you don't think are in your DD's best interests.

Keep clear, comprehensive written records of all of your communications with him.

EhricLovesTheBhrothers · 14/08/2014 10:31

If I were you I would suggest a session of mediation to discuss contact. He's fucked up big time and he thinks he can just make a half assed apology and it will go back to normal. He needs to understand you aren't playing around. Mediation would allow you to express your concerns with an impartial third party to facilitate it, and also maybe to remind him what his obligations are and the consequences of flaking again. I'd be inclined to give him some hoops to jump through if I'm honest, so that he can prove his commitment and realise that he can't just pick up and put down contact with no consequences. Mediation would help you set out consequences for the future also.
I also think your suggestion of reduced contact is a good one. As you say, he may flake again and it's better for her to be less used to seeing him. I'd say one weekend a daytime contact and the following weekend an overnight.

Goldmandra · 14/08/2014 10:32

calm, not clam!

zippey · 14/08/2014 10:43

I would also give him another chance, but I would do it officially and through court this time. Then I would guess its officially documented and cant reject her so easily without any comeback.

Your daughter has feelings and should not be subjective to his mood swings - rejection one minute, acceptance the next. His text just reads as lines of excuses, blaming you for his bad behaviour. I would call him up on that. How he treats his daughter is between him and her.

It just seems like he is playing games with you and your daughter. Its not so bad for the adult, but her feelings will be all over the place.

Also, saying "Fuck her" and "I want to be a stranger to her" about your 4 year old child... I dont know if Id be able to forgive that.

Original poster

NamesNick · 14/08/2014 11:02

How does this sound?

I will not engage in your attempts to justify your behaviour over this last week. Bottom Line: It doesnt matter who says what, a parent should never dump their child on a whim. The fact that dd needs her dad and paternal family has never been in any doubt whatsoever. I am however concerned that you will decide to dump her sometime in the future. With this in mind, and to begin with I will agree to the following: One overnight, every other week (starting this Friday) collect her at 6pm and drop her off at 3pm. Then on the weekends where she doesnt stay over you can have her for the day your choice whether this is Saturday or Sunday. I would like a formal contact arrangement and will therefore be contacting a solicitor to get something in place. Taking recent events into account, I believe this to be in dds best interests.

Regarding Sunday and your family plans, I too have made plans so unfortunately dd will not be able to attend.

Open to editing, as I don't plan to send this until later this evening when he has finished work.

OP posts:

Goldmandra · 14/08/2014 11:08

I will not engage in your attempts to justify your behaviour over this last week. Bottom Line: It doesnt matter who says what, a parent should never dump their child on a whim. The fact that dd needs her dad and paternal family has never been in any doubt whatsoever. I am however concerned that you will decide to dump her again sometime in the future. With this in mind, and to begin with I will agree to the following: One overnight, every other week (starting this Friday) collect her at 6pm and drop her off at 3pm. Then on the weekends where she doesnt stay over you can have her for the day your choice whether this is Saturday or Sunday. I would like a formal contact arrangement and will therefore be contacting a solicitor to get something in place. Taking recent events into account, I believe this to be in dds best interests.

Take your relationship and feelings out of it. This is about your DD. Don't engage with his comments about your actions. They are irrelevant.

Original poster

NamesNick · 14/08/2014 11:10

yes. thats better goldmandra. strictly business. thanks

OP posts:

Goldmandra · 14/08/2014 11:14

I might also change 'dump' to 'cease contact with' too. It's less emotive.

Have you thought about telling him that the CMS will be in touch now? I think it might be best to get all the tantrums over in one go. No point in coming to an agreement then having it all kick off again.

Original poster

NamesNick · 14/08/2014 11:24

The CMS are waiting on me paying the 20.00 application fee which I can't afford at the minute.

But I will tell him I'm making an application.

OP posts:

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