AIBU to consider not allowing daughters dad to see her...?

[NamesNick]

ExP and I split over 2 years ago. When we first split he didn't want to see our daughter (who is now 4) so I fought really hard, reasoned, pleaded etc etc and we eventually came to an arrangement where he would see her regularly and have her overnight once a week.
I think that since our split he has really stepped up and they have a great relationship. DD loves her dad so much and I encourage this with all my heart. All I ever wanted was for him to love her as much as I do. And I believe he does. Up until now..
I told him when he initially refused to have a relationship with her that his decision would be final and it was all or nothing, he couldn't just pick her up and drop her when the fancy took him.
So, for the past 2 years everything has gone really smoothly - he appears to really love her and she loves him.
Regarding the maintenance payments, that hasn't gone as smoothly because 3 times in 2 years he has 'negotiated' a reduction in maintenance payments, but I have always conceded because to me a relationship with her dad is more important than the money he pays.

So, yesterday I get a text message requesting further reduction to which I compromise and agree to half way without any arguments - he works FT btw and lives with his mum - apparently his 'household' are having financial issues and he wants to help them out...
He did not agree to my compromise and stated this is what you will get and that's it...needs must apparently.

I know this was being a bit of a cow but, I told him...ok, you pay what you pay but come to collect dd and drop her off, I'm no longer wasting fuel to facilitate your access. His response: well I won't see her at all then, (he lives in the same area so a 15 minute walk) and instead of having her last night as per our arrangement he went out. I actually called him to say ok I'm bringing her round. he said Fuck You and Fuck Her.

Last night I get a text message saying: I will pay but I want both of you to be strangers to me.

This is what I've done:

Told him not to pay anything I dont want his money if he not interested in spending time love and effort with his 4 year who dotes on him. I have given him unti Friday to decide what he wants to do.

He may well take a few weeks 'off' from seeing her an then try to get back in but I told him the previous time that it was all or nothing and I won't have him pick her up and drop her like a bad smel when he throws a titty lip.

If he decides by Friday that he doesn't want to see her AIBU to refuse him any contact in future. What do I do

She loves him and it breaks my heart, I'm not sure what the right thing to do is?

Yes CSA. What a prize cunt he is.

Hey, Nick.

Don't open a bank account in her name. When she's old enough she'll need to get the money herself and if he stops paying you won't be able to hide this from her, especially as the statements will be addressed to her. He'll also see it as pocket money for her rather than a contribution towards her upkeep.

Money and contact are two very different things, but he's made it clear that he doesn't want contact so I'd leave him to it. You can take a horse to water, but you can't make it drink, if you see what I mean. Is a relationship with her father in your child's best interests? This is what it boils down to. This is about her right to see her father, but if he's not interested then there's nothing you can do.

My ex was useless. He moved abroad when ds was three and didn't see him for the first three years, afterwards it was a couple of hours every 18 months or so (always with no notice. If we had plans he'd become verbally abusive and shout and swear down the phone that I was denying him access. Obviously I'm psychic and able to predict his rare visits ). My ex has a drink problem and has never known when to stop. On the rare occasions he did see ds he'd be hungover and fall asleep in the cinema. On the last occasion he lost his temper and ended up shouting and swearing in ds's face. Ds decided not to see him until he apologised (Ds was 11). His father stopped paying maintenance because of this, clearly to punish me, and I couldn't hide it as it used to go into ds's account. It made their relationship a thousand times worse. I went to court for maintenance (he's not in the UK) but the damage was already done, and now ds won't see his father at all, Ds is 15. I supported contact until ds was old enough to decide for himself, I can't say I was gutted when ds decided he'd had enough though.

You need to go to the CSA and get the maintenance calculated fairly. Mine wouldn't increase it, despite having a well paid job, and would plead poverty. I didn't question this. I saw his bank statements due to the court hearing and he had a second home, holidays monthly, hundreds of Euro's in jewellery shops etc. They just about doubled what he'd been paying before (bet he was happy! ). Seriously though, you need to get it sorted properly. Also, if he's happy not to see his child on a whim, he'll be happy to stop paying maintenance and there could be a time where you really need it.

Oh, and I'd keep the MIL out of it. She's likely to be on her son's side so it will make no difference. She's not going to believe you because her darling child's told her his version of the 'truth'.

OP, I am in a similar situation with my son, although he is a bit younger. I did the same as you, bent over backwards to encourage and accommodate his father to see him. I don't have a car so I used to get two buses to take the baby to see his dad - now his dad refuses to see him at his houses or to be seen in public with him anywhere so I have to let him come to ours. I have put up with mega-lateness, late cancellations, all sorts of unreasonable requests and refusals, and late payment of maintenance (which in our case is determined by, but not collected by, the CSA), all in the interests of continuing my son's contact with his father.

After a particularly bad run of bad attitude, I gave his father an ultimatum - either get your act together or that's it, you're not seeing him at all. Because ultimately I'd rather my son had no dad than a s* dad. He went ballistic, a bit like yours did. A lot of his reaction was heat of the moment stuff, just blind anger and not thinking clearly, and in the end he did improve. Much as though it is difficult, you have to ignore those angry reactions and just stay calm and wait for him to have a think about it. When things are calmer, you then need to separate out the two issues, money and contact, and try to address just the one which is most pressing (in this case it sounds like money). This is very difficult because there's a huge temptation to use one as a weapon for the other, but you must make a massive effort to stick to sorting money out first. Whatever you do, don't refuse money on principle. Put it in a savings account for your daughter if you must.

Well no-one can say you didn't try OP.

Keep all of those texts for future reference in case one day out of the blue you find he's taking you to court for joint custody (this happened to someone I know. Her ex got into a relationship with a woman who had a child his son's age and he decided - after two years of no communication - that his son should live with them, as if he was a toy to be taken out of storage now he was useful.)

It's useful for you to have proof that he chose to stop seeing her - and for no good reason.

What an absolute arsewipe. I know the feelings, all i could ask was how could XP do that to DS? how could he love him so little? How could he hate him so much?
10+ years of trying to process this have led me to the conclusion that he was (and may still be) an immature wanker. Basically he (and your XH) have thrown a tantrum because they didn't get their own way. The fact that they have destroyed their relationship with their own child is irrelevant to them as it is not about the child it is all about them.
For me, to this day, I hate XP with a deadly and venomous hatred. I would see the man burn. Not because he hurt me, but because he hurts DS everyday by his lack of presence in DSs life. I keep it to myself (and MN) and DS has no idea, but I hate that pathetic excuse for a human being. And you know what, there are days when that feels pretty good.

God what an arse wipe. Right that's it, he's made his decision, what a poor father he is. This two years which has been wonderful, has been facilitated by you, afraid to rock the boat in case he walked away from dd. He made some bad decisions which affect dd (maintenance) and you decided enough was enough and told him, he's acted like a baby throwing his toys out of the pram. Did he ever love dd, preparing to walk away from her completely, or was that love forced upon him. Your dd is best off without this lukewarm dad in her life, better now than set the precedent of being picked up,and dropped like a toy, later on. Get that money and put it away. Yes he has probably fed lies to his family, would you give his mum a call of e mail and explain, with photo shots of his correspondence.

Yes definitely save and print all communication for future reference.

If he wants contact let him go to court who will set out definite contact arrangements. He will be frowned upon if he misses contact. He has had more than enough time to think, he cannot treat his dd like shit, she is a little child not a doll. He has had more than enough chances, sometimes it's better to have no father in the child's life, than a lukewarm one.

stickystick this cannot go on forever, your ds will get older and will see the situation for what it is! How his dad treats him! He will see his dad outting very little effort while you put in a lot

ha. his sister has just announced to the world via fb that she has booked a holiday abroad for 7 weeks time...cant be that strapped for cash hey?

sorry I dont mean to keep this going but im just venting.

went quite well tonight. dd only asked for him twice and asked to phone him...stiff upper lip me...

Vent away, MN was built for it. But it is yet another reason to involve outside agencies in maintenance matters. He is lying to you and willing to see his child destitute. These are not the actions of a decent human, they are the actions of an arse. Just don't engage with him on it, let professionals who've seen and heard it all before do it for you.

And good luck, you sound like a bloody ace Mum.

namesnick just about the CSA - I think it only costs £50 to get the assessment of how much he should be paying done. That's probably worthwhile, compared to how much of your time and energy you spend arguing about it, and certainly compared to using lawyers to argue about it. If he doesn't pay up what the assessment says, THEN you can threaten him with going to the CSA to ask them to enforce collection. That will involve larger fees, true, but they will hurt him a lot more than they hurt you.

Some people's definition of 'skint and can't afford maintenance' is different to a normal person's. Mine included gifts to his family for Christmas as an expense to justify why he shouldn't pay, as well as charity donations for disadvantaged children in Africa. He was only too willing for his child to go without clothes and shoes though.

Good luck with the CSA

You have done what you can. You can not do anymore than that.

I am going through something myself. My dd wants a relationship with her dad, he says that he wants a relationship with her but he hasn't done anything to build up a relationship. I have tried all that I can, even though it kills me inside to see my dd being treated like dirt, to forge a relationship between them but it hasn't happened because of dds father.

It is sad to see that useless fathers are a common everyday thing. Why are they allowed to get away with it? Why are they not being named and shamed?

I've not read the whole thread but I read your whole post and the first few comments so apologies for a cross post, I'm sure this has been written up thread.

My first thought was 'god I could've written this'!
I've been struggling with such problems too so seeing yours written down is such a help, thankyou.

My second thought is 'fuck him' if anyone ever says that about a child then they are clearly not fit to be a part of their life.

You sound like you've done more than enough and everything has been done, on your part, selflessly and with your DDS best interests at heart.
I think you know deep down that the decision has been made and that he is now 100% out. I don't think this is your decision to make anymore.

I would ring the csa and set about forming some explanation to tell your dd why daddy won't be around anymore.

I'm sorry, it's a horribly sad situation and I feel so much for you both. You are both better off without a shit like that in your lives for the time being though.

Make sure you keep touch with him so you always have a way to contact him. This way when dd is old enough she can contact him if she wishes.
Also remember family on his side if they have a role to play in her life? Maybe they'd like to continue that?

Very best of luck x

If dd asks tell the truth, that dad does not want to be in your life anymore, she is going to find out soon enough. Don't make excuses or lie for him. She will be upset and hurt at first but lots of love and reassurance from you will help her.

Keep reassuring her it's not her fault, daddy just wanted it that way.

Sorry, but I think it's wrong to tell a 4 year old that 'dad doesn't want to be in your life anymore'. That's actually very traumatic for such a small child. I agree with not making excuses or lying to her, but I'd say 'I don't know' and reinforce the fact that she didn't do anything wrong. It may be the case that the tosser turns around and begs forgiveness for his tossing ways, and it would cause a small child so much distress if they are told daddy doesn't want you. It is poisoning a child against the absent parent.

I dont know if im ready to tell her that yet. I have said that daddy is poorly on the occasions she has asked.

but during a movie yesterday I did get the opportunity to explain to her that not everyone has a daddy and that sometimes daddys just go away..

he also text me yesterday. saying he loved her and missed her. he sees a lot of (his surname) in her which is nice but he doesnt want anything to do with the (my surname) part of her.

I didnt respond.

he is obviously trying to justify his decision in some weird way.

Not responding is a good choice. He really is a piece of work!

I'd ignore him unless it's something about your DD. It sounds as though he's angry at you for something (my ex sent ds a birthday card missing his surname off the envelope because ds has mine). He needs to accept that you're part of his dd's life too, so he has a lot of growing up to do.

how horrible to say that to you - so he only likes the part of his daughter which is his. Nasty man - quite right to ignore.

I believe he is angry with me for moving on quite easily and doing well.

our relationship ended like this...

sleeping in separate rooms for 2 weeks and I got a text from him saying...next purchase is a new bed for spare room. im not moving out as you need me financially and to help with dd.

my response to that was simply no id prefer you to move out. and he did.

its been two years. im happy. have a new boyfriend etc etc so I believe he is just pissed off that I was strong enough to just go on my own and move on with my life.

I am not sorry for moving on. or having a new boyfriend. it happens. what did he expect? I have always included him. but when I involve him..like come with me to collect dd from nursery he said no. when I suggest he goes on his own he says no. when I talk to him about schools and where she should go he just says whatever you think is best...its been me doing everything and he blames me for alienating him.
he had done that himself in my opinion