To wonder if this is for real, and if so, what moron came up with it?! **Trigger warning**

[StoneTheFlamingCrows]

One in three reported rapes happen when the victim has been drinking

If this link is true I am ashamed to work for the nhs.

No, I didn't try to fight him off. Maybe because my reaction times were affected by fear and shock at the trust that was being abused and at being treated by someone who knew me as a thing for his use. Or maybe I was a bit thick. All down to your point of view.

I sympathise absolutely with the indignation that this could be construed as victim blaming. However, there is one assumption being made here that I must question.

Rapes happen because rapists decide to rape.

True. But this argument pre-supposes that the rapist sets out one evening with the express intention of raping someone, picks his victim and then rapes her.

OK, so in some cases this might be the case. But I wonder how many rapes are opportunistic. I.e. They happen because some scumbag realises that a woman has had a lot to drunk and thinks she will be an easy target and he will get away with it.

And before anyone jumps up and down I am not saying that this in any way, shape or form excuses his behaviour. It is still rape. But potentially he would not have tried his luck that night if he had not identified a potential victim. So statistically yes it is possible that more sobriety could reduce the number of rapes comitted.

Being drunk makes you more vulnerable to a lot of things, for example, being run over, falling down and hurting yourself, being more vulnerable because you are less aware. No one says that it excuses the rapist or makes the crime any less severe. The ad is merely advising women to take precautions to stay safe.

OK, ok. Lets all just keep quite and say "hey, its ok girls, go out and get legless you'll be fine as you won't be able to keep yourself safe whatever steps you take anyway"

Happy?

Or, let's stop banging on and fucking ON at the "girls" and start that other prong you agreed was necessary. Until then, no. Not happy.

The most common clothes a woman is wearing immediately before she is raped, in this country, is jeans and a T-shirt.
But clothing doesn't make you more vulnerable.
Men have never been known to ply a woman with jeans and t-shirt to make her more vulnerable so they could rape her. Rapists DO ply women with alcohol so they can rape them.
Why do you think women are advised to keep an eye on their drinks? Because an incapacitated woman is an easy target, and one who is unlikely to be able to recognise her offender or identify him.

Being drunk doesn't get you raped - fortunately. Meeting a rapist might do
And being drunk, increases the likelihood that you will be targetted by a rapist who is looking for a vulnerable victim.

Women are advised not to get into the car of an unlicensed taxi drivers, because there is an increased risk of attack. Warning women about that fact doesn't blame them for any attacks they suffered, but it has helped keep a lot of women safe, because by knowing that important risk factor, they can avoid putting themselves in a position where they are at a significantly greater risk of being raped. Harping on about more women getting raped by someone they know, and telling men not to rape, may well be true, but is of no help to a woman looking for a taxi home.

The ad is merely advising women to take precautions to stay safe.

This is what I also believe was the intent of the ad, using shock tactics to get the message across, but in using the shock tactics it has unintentionally given the impression that the victim is at fault.

*Being drunk doesn't get you raped - fortunately. Meeting a rapist might do
And being drunk, increases the likelihood that you will be targetted by a rapist who is looking for a vulnerable victim.

Women are advised not to get into the car of an unlicensed taxi drivers, because there is an increased risk of attack. Warning women about that fact doesn't blame them for any attacks they suffered, but it has helped keep a lot of women safe, because by knowing that important risk factor, they can avoid putting themselves in a position where they are at a significantly greater risk of being raped. Harping on about more women getting raped by someone they know, and telling men not to rape, may well be true, but is of no help to a woman looking for a taxi home.*

Finally - some sense!

Still waiting for that other prong...

Mitchey and Migsy - lets tell everyone not to get legless. Getting legless isn't a great idea. Lets tell young men too. Young men are by far the most "vulnerable" statistically in terms of the likelihood of being attacked. Where are the warnings to them?

The "rapes may be opportunistic" argument is not backed up by these statistics is it? Since 2 out of 3 rapes don't involve alcohol.

lets tell everyone not to get legless. Getting legless isn't a great idea. Lets tell young men too.

The advertising campaign is gender neutral and doesn't mention anything about men or women being the victim so this is already achieved.

rapists rape vulnerable women and men, if you are drunk you are vulnerable. They might also pick as victims people who have been drinking because they might be less likely to have a clear recollection of what happened. I can't see it is offensive to bring this to people's attention.

A question for those people who weirdly think that not drinking will save you from being raped. If a friend of yours was raped, but had had a couple of glasses of wine, would you be less sympathetic than if she was stone cold sober?
No-one has said that not drinking will save you from being raped.
The message I keep seeing is that it reduces your risk.
Why would we be any less sympathetic? Where did anyone say that it would be her fault? And we are not even talking about a couple of glasses of wine, we are talking about being soo drunk that you leave yourself partially or totally incapacitated.

The only way to prevent rape is to never be near any man ever again. When people say that they do 'X' to prevent themselves being raped, they are fooling themselves and they are, like it or not, victim blaming.
I'm afraid that really is delusional and it is misrepresentative of the advice being given. Firstly, no-one has claimed that you can "prevent" yourself from being raped, this is about reducing your risk.
Secondly, if your friend or daughter, said that she had met this lovely bloke on the internet and have been chatting for a few months now and she is finally going to go and meet him - at his house, on her own, because he's a chef and he wants to cook her a special meal. She doesn't know his address yet, it's difficult to find so he's going to phone her and give directions over the phone as she drives. Would you suggest she did anything to protect herself, and reduce the likelihood of her becoming a victim of attack or would you wave her off and hope she had a lovely time? After all, if she does get raped, it would be his fault and there is nothing that she could have done to prevent it, other than locking herself away and never being near a man again.

An alternative crime scenario: Police sometimes get shot at so they wear protective gear to reduce the risk. Because the shooter is to blame, not the police, should the police just not wear protection? Of course not. In the same way being advised about the risks involved with alcohol doesn't mean the victim is at fault for a rape, it just gives them a way to reduce the risk by some small degree should such a situation arise.

Also, just because 2 out of 3 involve alcohol, doesn't mean that things shouldn't be done to reduce the risk of the 1 in 3 that does.

The vast majority of men could pound me into the ground, drunk or sober. Are small women more likely to be raped? Should there be a poster "The vast majority of rapes happen when the victim is a bit of a weed" Then I can blame myself for missing the last 800 gym sessions that I've promised myself I'll get around to and wish that I'd done that self defence class that I've been thinking about.

The things that women are supposed to do to prevent rape are hugely curtailing and largely don't make a difference. It's preposterous to expect 51% of the population to become teetotal to prevent rape and I'll eat my hat if it makes a difference.

The things that women are supposed to do to prevent rape are hugely curtailing and largely don't make a difference. It's preposterous to expect 51% of the population to become teetotal to prevent rape
Hugely curtailing? Really? Where have you been advised to become teetotal? We are talking about not being so drunk that you leave yourself partially or totally incapacitated as that will reduce your risk.
And you are free to ignore the information.

maybe 1 out of 3 rapes happen when the victim has been drinking because people tend to drink at social occasions. Maybe it has nothing to do with vulnerability or reaction times but with being around men humans.

I had a whisky last night before I went to bed but I would have been more likely to be raped at a party drinking a nice cup of tea than in my own house where the males are under 10.

We are talking about not being so drunk that you leave yourself partially or totally incapacitated as that will reduce your risk

That isn't what the poster said and I am talking about the poster. 'Been drinking' is not the same as being incapacitated. It's not even close.

A few questions for those of you who think this campaign is a disgrace and victim blaming:

Do you think that this information should be withheld from the public?

Do you think that women should not be given any advice about how to stay safe?

If there is a rapist in the area, targetting certain women or following a certain pattern, should the Police warn women in the area, so they can take steps to protect themselves?

Are organisations like the Suzy Lamplugh Trust, doing women harm by offering advice on action they can take to reduce the risk of attack?

Jesus. This old debate again.

Being horribly drunk in a public place puts you at risk of becoming a victim of crime. Lots of crimes. Men and women. You are vulnerable. You stand a proportionately higher risk of being mugged, pick pocketed or a victim of a number of violent crimes. Rape is one of them.

It therefore makes sense to warn all people about the risks associated with getting blotto. Rape could legitimately be included in the list of those crimes.

What isn't legitimate, is to target not getting drunk as rape prevention. Because it isn't causally linked with the vast majority of rapes. (Though there is, I believe, some evidence to suggest that alcohol consumption by the perpetrator is. Let's tell men not to drink in case they become rapists).

Isn't it amazing how often we tell women to curtail their behaviour to avoid being a victim. But never tell men to curtail theirs to avoid becoming a criminal.

Let me ask you back - do you think there is a woman in the country who doesn't understand that she is at risk of sexual assault from men? Isn't the stay safe message rammed down your fucking throat enough? Where is the work to address the cause and not the effect? I loved the posts earlier from mums talking about bringing their sons up to understand and respect boundaries. Where is that ad campaign?

A few questions for those of you who think this campaign is a disgrace and victim blaming:

Do you think that this information should be withheld from the public?

We aren't suggesting that it should be withheld. Just that presenting it as this poster does is useless and victim blaming. You might as well have a poster saying "2/3 of victims of rape hadn't drunk alcohol. Take your daily shots"

Do you think that women should not be given any advice about how to stay safe?

I think all women, and all men, should be given advice on avoiding violent crime.

I think women should be given advice on rape risks. Sadly, this would most effectively relate to identifying red flags in the men within their own lives.

If there is a rapist in the area, targetting certain women or following a certain pattern, should the Police warn women in the area, so they can take steps to protect themselves?

They do that with all crimes don't they?

Are organisations like the Suzy Lamplugh Trust, doing women harm by offering advice on action they can take to reduce the risk of attack?

See above.

So there is valid advice that a woman can take on board, that will help her reduce the risk of being a victim of rape.
Giving and taking that advice, does not in anyway blame victims. It does help women assess the risks of a situation and decide on their own course of action.

Yes Wicked. The most relevant advice would be to never be alone with a male friend, relative or acquaintance. Implying women shouldn't drink alcohol is up there with suggesting tight underwear.

It isn't advice. That's what's so shit about it. I'm not opposed to a two pronged approach although I'm yet to see any evidence of the 'don't rape' prong of the attack. If the 'don't get raped' prong is going to be effective it needs to be actual advice rather than '1 in 3 rapes happen when the victim has been drinking' because what does that information tell me? What advice does that statistic give me? There are probably dozens of statistics that could've been used, all of them pointless.

I genuinely don't know what the 'don't get raped' advice should be, if it should exist at all. All women know they are at risk of sexual assault from being about 10 years old. A poster telling us that we are at risk from sexual assault neither changes that fact or gives us anything that helps us change it.

I assume this poster is directed at getting raped after a night out by a stranger or acquaintance rather than at home by a partner. I think it's about not being the most vulnerable woman in the room. All of these rapes happen when the victim has left the house. Many of them happen when the victim has danced with the rapist, many of them happen when the victim is wearing clothes that are not conducive to bare knuckle fighting. High heels for example. Many will happen when the victim is separated from her friends or money or ride home. Lets say I do all the right things. I wear flat shoes and trousers, I don't drink, I don't talk to strangers or dance with the men in my group or 'lead them on', I don't go to the toilet alone and I stick with my group. I don't flirt or smile too much. I keep a spare £20 in my bra for an emergency taxi and I go home with a female friend, carrying my keys between my fingers the way I was taught to in school. I don't get raped. Hooray! But the rape still happened, he just raped the other woman, the one who had the audacity to enjoy the freedoms that men take for granted. That's the problem with victim lead rape prevention. It doesn't prevent rape.

Personally I feel completely powerless to stop rape, except from the pov of educating my sons.