To wonder if this is for real, and if so, what moron came up with it?! **Trigger warning**

[StoneTheFlamingCrows]

One in three reported rapes happen when the victim has been drinking

If this link is true I am ashamed to work for the nhs.

Because eelisavetaofBelsornia there is a far far higher rate of rape of women then of short weak men or people in wheelchairs? That's a silly argument.

It's implying that because women chose to drink, they are partly responsible for what happens
No it's not. The rapist is always 100% responsible. No-one has said anything different.

Okay Mitchey - if one accepts that it is a fact that one in three rapes occurs when a woman has been drinking and that therefore one should do what one can to keep oneself safe - then logically one should get drunk, shouldn't one? In order to lessen the likelihood of rape?

Two out three rapes apparently occur when the woman has not been drinking. Therefore it is safer to be drunk than to be sober.

The poster is ludicrous.

One could equally well have a statistic that says "4 out of 5 rapes occur when a woman was wearing tights when the rapist saw her" - and then conclude it was safer to be bare-legged.

Rapes are not opportunistic.

Decent men do not rape drunk women or sober women. Rapists rape twice as many sober women as drunk women (if one accepts the statistics).

That's not very well thought out is it anybodyin? You're clearly clutching at straws to justify your outrage at this. Does being sober make you more vulnerable in your opinion? No, of course not.

What they're saying (as if you don't know) is that that 'one' 'out of the three' rapes could have maybe been prevented if the women wasn't drunk. I'd love to have one out of every three rapes prevented wouldn't you?

also, wearing tights doesn't make you vulnerable, being drunk does. Any idiot can see that rolleyes

No Mitchey. Being drunk does not make you vulnerable to rape unless you encounter a rapist.

I'm not clutching at straws at all. I'm pointing out the flaws in using statistics to suggest increased risk.

If you want to use statistics properly then you need to examine ALL the particulars of EVERY case for them to be valid.

Were the woman who reported the rapes incapacitated by drink? Had they had one drink? Where did they meet the rapist? Was the rapist known to them? Where did the rape take place? What did the rapist do? Was the rapist someone they knew and had had a drink with before? Did the rapist walk them home because - after all - walking home alone is risky, isn't it?

You can roll your eyes all you like - this poster is sending the wrong message. Being drunk doesn't get you raped - fortunately. Meeting a rapist might do.

I don't understand how explaining a simple fact, implies victim blaming.

Would you REALLY be better off not knowing that information?
I teach my kids various things to try and keep them safe.

Yes 1 in 3 rape victims are drunk means 2 in 3 aren't, but one third is still a very significant proportion of rape victims, who could well have protected themselves from the attack had they been sober.

I would love to know more about the other 2 thirds. Are there particular risk factors? We know abusive relationships must make up a proportion and there is support for women to leave abusive partners.
There is certainly advice for women who are meeting a man for a date for the first time, to protect themselves - meet somewhere public, tell a friend where you are going etc. Is that advice victim blaming too?
There is advice for female estate agents, to reduce the risk of them coming to harm.

When you park your car up, do you follow the police advice to keep valuables out of sight? It is just sensible advice to reduce the risk of theft from cars. It doesn't make you responsible for the crime. You should be able to leave your bag on the back seat and your phone on the dashboard, but there are thieves around, so it is sensible to take steps to reduce the risk.

I have never heard of anyone blaming Suzy Lamplugh for her murder, yet the campaign set up in her name is all about personal safety and there is a lot of advice on her website, that includes:
"If you are drinking alcohol, be careful not to let it affect your judgment or your ability to take care of yourself."
There is lots of good advice that is well worth a read on Suzy Lamplugh Trust to help protect yourself.
It's not compulsory reading, so if the idea of protecting yourself is offensive to you, then don't bother, but I will read the information and take sensible steps to reduce the risk of me becoming a victim of crime, or one of those 1 in 3.

What they're saying (as if you don't know) is that that 'one' 'out of the three' rapes could have maybe been prevented if the women wasn't drunk. I'd love to have one out of every three rapes prevented wouldn't you?

But they can't say that.

The most common clothes a woman is wearing immediately before she is raped, in this country, is jeans and a T-shirt.

The jeans and T-shirt do not make her vulnerable, they are just very common items of clothing. In Iran the most common item may well be a head scarf

The advert does not refer to being drunk, it refers to, 'been drinking', so everything between losing consciousness and a sip of communion wine.

It implies, as you have said that not drinking will prevent rape, it won't.

Unfortunately being sober doesn't make you less vulnerable according to the statistics does it?

"Not very well thought out" - pot, kettle?

I would like 3 out of 3 rapes prevented, which is why the emphasis needs to be on the behaviour of men. If rapes are caused by rapists, then the actions of the victims are facts and are also irrelevant.

It's not all that hard.

Being drunk doesn't get you raped - fortunately. Meeting a rapist might do

And being drunk when you meet the rapist means you're going to have slower responses making it harder to fight them off. If you are sober you can think quick and your reactions are quicker. That's a fact as well.

I would like 3 out of 3 rapes prevented, which is why the emphasis needs to be on the behaviour of men. If rapes are caused by rapists, then the actions of the victims are facts and are also irrelevant.

But we've already established that these men aren't going to not rape just But because somebody tells them it's not a noice thing to do. So don't you think that coming at it from another angle (ie the victims side) you'll have a better outcome? If you could have a poster telling men not to rape do you think that would stop them? Stop and think before you type this codswallop . . .

"Fight them off"?? Is that really how you think it works?

It implies, as you have said that not drinking will prevent rape, it won't.

No it absolutely won't but it DOES mean you'll react quicker if it does happen - as a sober person - in being able to prevent it. Agreed, you shouldn't have to prevent it yourself but unfortunately that is life and we have to deal with it.

"Fight them off"?? Is that really how you think it works?

Well I' d bloody well try. Wouldn't you?

I did when I was mugged by two men. And I wasn't drunk. If I was I probably would have come out of it a lot worse . . .

I don't think we are going to agree are we Mitchey?

I might well try not to get rat-arsed so that I didn't forget my purse or trip up on the way home. However, since the facts in this poster don't contain any details of what part the drink played in these one in three rapes (just that there had been drinking going on) I think it is a bit of a leap to assume that faster reactions might have prevented the rapes. They might have done.

We don't know.

If we are going by the facts presented then we have also to accept that the faster reactions of a sober person did not prevent the majority of rapes...

I think the message the poster attempts to get across is essentially to make sure that you keep control of your faculties and keep within your limits so that you don't put yourself in a vulnerable position. Of course, this isn't the way the poster actually comes across and looks more like victim blaming when obviously the blame is always on the offender.

I think you'd have to be a little bit thick to not understand that dulled reaction times wouldn't hinder you in an attack of any sort. After all, you can't drive after a few drinks for that very reason

Well someone thinks posters change behaviour, or why have them?

I'm talking about the attitudes boys are raised with. The views they hear male role models expressing. The jokes they are told. The way they see relationships depicted in fiction. The response they see when crimes do occur. The messages they get from all of this. Sadly I feel the messages they get from you is that it's women's job to stop themselves getting raped.

No I don't think coming from.the victim side is better. I think it shows a sort of acceptance that rape will always be a risk and there's no point trying to change the way our society sees men and women to reduce it. As a mother of girls I find this profoundly depressing.

And as someone who was raped, in a family home by someone I knew totally sober, I think your attitudes are repellent.

I think it is a bit of a leap to assume that faster reactions might have prevented the rapes.

Really? I don't. At all.

Well someone thinks posters change behaviour, or why have them?

I think changing the behaviour of a possible victim is easier than changing the behaviour of a socio pathetic criminal . . .

But we've already established that these men aren't going to not rape just But because somebody tells them it's not a noice thing to do.

There are some fairly scarey stats on what teenagers think rape is/isn't.

Have a look at the Ched Evans case.

He is in prison for rape. He still does not think he has done anything wrong. His friends and family don't think he did anything wrong.

What is going to stop him raping again? Maybe if he had understood what he was doing was rape he would not have done it.

OK this is US stats, but have a read. One thing, more of the men had used drugs/alcohol before raping than the women had.

www.uic.edu/depts/owa/sa_rape_support.html

www.lisashea.com/lisabase/womensissues/whenisrapeok/

Mitchey - I have been attacked, when sober. My reaction times didn't help me one iota.

I have stepped in to help someone when sober and when not entirely sober. I got violently shoved to the ground when sober and not when drunk. Do you know why that was? The first time I encountered someone violent. The second time I didn't.

I'm talking about the attitudes boys are raised with. The views they hear male role models expressing. The jokes they are told. The way they see relationships depicted in fiction. The response they see when crimes do occur

Agreed BUT this is just one side of two pronged approach though. And a two pronged approach is necessary.

But.....

A question for those people who weirdly think that not drinking will save you from being raped. If a friend of yours was raped, but had had a couple of glasses of wine, would you be less sympathetic than if she was stone cold sober? How about if she'd had a couple of bottles of wine at a boozy meal? If, god forbid, you are raped in those same scenarios, would you feel more or less guilt?

Most rapes are never reported to the Police. Vast bodies of anecdotal evidence suggests that a lot of men and women who don't report rape, don't report it because they believe they will not be believed and that they are in some way to blame. Rightly or wrongly, public service posters like this, while I am sure it was well meant, perpetuate the belief that, if you're raped when you have been drinking it is in some way your fault.

So, let me repeat. The only way someone can be raped is if they happen to be in the immediate vicinity of a rapist who wants to rape them. The only way to prevent rape is to never be near any man ever again. When people say that they do 'X' to prevent themselves being raped, they are fooling themselves and they are, like it or not, victim blaming.

As an example, if I was to say 'I would never walk across the common at night, I might get raped, that's just common sense isn't it, to take that preventative action', what that says to a person who has been raped on that common is, that they failed to take preventative action and that they lack common sense, which therefore means that their attack was, in my opinion, even in the tiniest sense, their fault. It's not, and it never will be.

People should be able to walk wherever they like, in whatever state of sobriety, dress or demeanor they choose, in perfect safety. Saying that they shouldn't, because there will always be rapists about is a cop out.