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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Feeling hurt about Dad's spending

162 replies

LemonadeLady · 04/08/2014 21:52

My mother died a few years ago. She always saved money which she said was for the grandchildren, emergencies and holidays..

Because of the circumstances Dad took power of attorney before she died and all her money went into his account. It was a large sum.

I didn't expect anything after her death but the last few years have been a struggle financially with a young family. My brother is in negative equity and we were both hoping Dad would offer to help out with something for the grandchildren one day.

However it seems that he has spent most of the money... long holidays, a new car, treats to cheer himself up because he is bereaved and lonely. I can understand why he spends but he also has a huge pension and is basically blowing the lot.

I feel so hurt that he hasn't even considered helping us out. If the money was in mum's account when she died it would have been devided between us. She would be so upset about it. My brother & I are struggling to cover the basics while he is buying whatever he feels like.

It is also a reminder that without my mum in this world there is no-one to put me first.

Please tell me IABU.

OP posts:
auntjane2 · 05/08/2014 17:27

LemonadeLady I do hope you have not been upset by anything written here, but if I were you, I would at least dig out the documents and seek sensible informed advice rather than asking Mumsnet. You don't have to take legal action if you don't want to, but I suspect an informed interview with a sensible, knowledgeable adviser, with the documents in front of you if you can, might help, even if all you then do is talk to your father - and to your brother, who is also entitled to an opinion.

EverythingCounts · 05/08/2014 17:55

If you are really prepared to take him in if he makes himself destitute, having spent your inheritance, then you're a better person than I am. Then again, my dad would go without pretty much anything himself rather than see me or DGC struggle, so I really find this level of selfishness in a parent hard to comprehend. Your dad sounds like someone who has not been actively unpleasant but who has always let others make the sacrifices, do the boring bits of childcare, etc knowing he won't have to deal with the mess. It's previously been your mother and now it will be you. Just be aware that you don't have to sacrifice yourself financially, give up part of your home and so on, for him. I don't mean you have to cut him off, but he has very clearly put himself first ahead of you, your brother and your kids, so you would be a fool not to do the same. He will just have to manage. As you are having to now.

OddFodd · 05/08/2014 17:59

Your dad is stealing your money, I'm not surprised you're upset. Can't you and your brother present a united front and talk to him? Grieving is a really crappy excuse to steal from your own children tbh.

And really, lots of cars and nice holidays don't make you happy

thatwouldbeanecumenicalmatter · 05/08/2014 18:10

Agree with what Auntjane and EverythingCounts said.

What does your DB think about it all? I can't imagine he's happy with the situation either.

Original poster
LemonadeLady · 05/08/2014 18:31

Thanks again.

It does look awful written down but I have taken it as far as I could with him. He completely panics when I suggest he could help us more and says things like 'oh well, you're surviving' or 'when I win the lottery'.... Which is infuriating.

He is in denial I feel and not for the first time.

There is a family discussion looming as DB really is up against it with his finances and we have agreed he should ask Dad.

It is the hurt that this has caused which is the worst thing. I can manage without the money. It's just knowing that it's there (for now!) and what it could do for my little family.

Also, even when my DCs are adults I will do everything to make their lives more comfortable. It is painful that he doesn't even consider doing this for us.

OP posts:
Original poster
LemonadeLady · 05/08/2014 18:35

I really don't understand the thing about making it clear you're not going to help your children financially, if you are able to...
Surely that is giving them a message that they are not a priority....???

OP posts:
susiedaisy · 05/08/2014 18:47

Wow op that was really underhanded of your dad to empty your mums savings account before she died. Is this why she had the savings because your mum knew your dad is hopeless with money !??? I feel for you and your db!

Bearbehind · 05/08/2014 18:53

It's a bit strange that you have such strong views that parents should help their grown up children financially (which I don't agree with as parents have a right to enjoy their later years and children should make their own way) and yet have allowed your father to steal from you Hmm

He took what was rightfully yours- that's a long, long way from choosing not to help you out when he has no obligation to do so.

I hope you manage to sort things out but a sure as hell wouldn't tell your Dad that you are planning to 'keep' him in his old age- he'll just blow the lot even quicker.

He is a selfish, self centred man who really doesn't care for you, your brother or his grandchildren- don't enable his behaviour any more.

thatwouldbeanecumenicalmatter · 05/08/2014 18:55

Your latest post Lemon suggests he knows what he's done/doing and is trying to avoid talking about it with you/DB.

I can see why you're hurt Sad

Logarhythm · 05/08/2014 19:02

I don't see telling my kids that we are not going to bank roll them as the same thing as saying we don't care for them - their needs are important to us and that is why we will encourage them to work hard and not to be financially dependent on us, we see too many kids live off their parents - it's not a healthy situation IMO. They must make their own way in life. We will sell the house, it's part of our pension plan and we will enjoy our retirement while the dcs work hard to provide for their own.

auntjane2 · 05/08/2014 19:10

Dear LemonadeLady, you write: "even when my DCs are adults I will do everything to make their lives more comfortable"
You can start by taking informed advice on how to continue tackling your father for money he wants to spend on holidays and cars, money that should have come down a generation when your mother died. The more you write, the more I am of the opinion you should fight. The longer you delay, the more quickly the money will be gone, and how will that help your brother, you, or your children?

BathTangle · 05/08/2014 19:31

Seconding the advice of at least get a basic legal understanding of the position, so that when you talk to your Dad you know EXACTLY where you stand. (Money held under a POA should still form part of the person's estate, AFAIK - but I'm not a lawyer.)

Having dealt with both POA and a contested will for a friend, I know that it is really really unpleasant, but I also know that if the people concerned could have discussed it openly and in an informed way earlier on, it would have been a much better option.

tiggytape · 05/08/2014 19:34

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

auntjane2 · 05/08/2014 19:40

I still think OP you should ask Citizens' Advice Bureau or a solicitor - or your brother - rather than Mumsnet posters

Original poster
LemonadeLady · 05/08/2014 20:54

Thanks Ladies.

I wasn't really looking for legal advice but I take the point that it is contradictory to want to put my kids first and yet not fight for the money that could make their lives easier.

Also by 'making their lives more comfortable' I don't mean bank roll them- of course they will earn their own living- I mean it would be lovely to be able to treat them or help them get on the property ladder.

It was the moral perspective I was interested in exploring because my judgement is coloured by the loss of my mum and thinking about what she would have done.

I will have one more go at talking to him directly with my brother.... Families are complicated.

And I m going make my Will very explicit!

OP posts:
TheWholeOfTheSpoon · 06/08/2014 01:25

The way I look at it is this...Mildred is married to Norman. Norman, when he was 21, really loved very expensive suits. But he married Mildred, who really wanted to save for their future. Mildred and Norman have a couple of kids and Norman, as much as he still wants an expensive suit, goes to work, saves for the future, and just looks at very expensive suits. Norman and Mildred's children grow up. They may or may not make sound financial decisions, but Norman and Mildred pay off their mortgage,sort themselves a good pension and save a bit of money. Mildred gets sick, and Norman realises he's about to have to dish out to the tax office a HUGE proportion of their assets, so he does what so many other people do, and puts them in his name. To Norman's eternal pain, Mildred dies. But, in his grief, Norman decides that this is the ONE time in his entire life that he gets to buy an expensive suit. So he does. And, when he dies, the house and all that is in it, will belong to the two children. You can switch the names whichever way you like.

EverythingCounts · 06/08/2014 01:33

But in the OP's version, it's specifically Mildred who saves, not Norman too. So Norman hasn't necessarily been holding his own desires and wishes in check all these years.

steff13 · 06/08/2014 01:40

Are you certain he transferred the money so our wouldn't be part of the estate? I was my mom's POA, and I transferred her money to my account because it made it easier to pay her expenses. I was only 24, I didn't know what I was doing, I was just trying to get her bills taken care of as easily as possible.

What sum of money are we taking about? Did none of it go to her expenses?

Morloth · 06/08/2014 01:49

But surely if they had been married for 45 years then any money was 'their' money?

Walkacrossthesand · 06/08/2014 07:24

spoon, tax on bequests comes off the donor not the recipient. A well designed will avoids IHT by bequeathing a 'sub IHT' amount to children/grandchildren, leaving the rest to the spouse (IHT exempt).

Walkacrossthesand · 06/08/2014 07:27

Sorry, posted too soon - was just heading off to Google to double check my facts! In any event, a spouse does not need to transfer money before spouse's death to avoid tax - it's exempt anyway. Added to which, gifts of large amounts of money to non-exempt people need to be at least 7 years before death to avoid IHT. I am cofident this was not a tax-efficiency exercise Hmm

DikTrom · 06/08/2014 07:30

You need to seek legal advice. I think there may be legal issues with what your dad is doing. Seek advice asap.

People who say that he can do whatever he likes are misguided and don't understand the Law.

Logarhythm · 06/08/2014 07:53

Different perspective? Do you think your dad is using shopping as a displacement activity for grief? Did your mum control the money because he had a tendency towards being a compulsive shopper?

I'm just wondering whether your dad needs help?

MinginInTheRain · 06/08/2014 07:55

I would feel cheated too. You knew your mum and her intentions. Was your dad never happy with her saving and frugality?

I could accept him living it up a bit and enjoying himself but to the point of making himself destitute? No way. And then to help him? No way. He sounds incredibly childish and selfish.

Think you are doing well to keep talking to him and reminding him of what your mum wanted and of her will.

TouchOfNatural · 06/08/2014 08:08
  1. I view this kind of attitude as so entitled... Yes it would be nice but it's not obligatory... It's HIS money!!!!! He can spend it how he wants to .. As you can spend yours how you want to. Terrible attitude. You can ask for help.. But can NOT expect it.

One of my cousins said 'he's spending our inheritance, makes me mad' ... In a comment for his dad'd 80th when he threw a little bash... I nearly swiped him. How entitled!!!! He can spend his money how he wishes!!! He goes on holidays too which angers his son.. Honestly, his son needs a right bout of common sense and needs to lose the selfish attitude.

  1. Also... Re someone who said 'she gave up 30 years of her life for her children then 10 years for him...' Giving up your life for children you chose to have???? Really??? Goodness!

Both of those thinkings to me are odd.